Jakespaar
Well-Known Member
Thanks for taking the time to respond. Is there going to be a difference in sound quality with or without a line-out converter if I use an amp such as the JL Audio XD700/5?
2013 Civic "Premium Audio System" Navigation Stereo Upgrade
- Thread starter Hillstones
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Thanks for taking the time to respond. Is there going to be a difference in sound quality with or without a line-out converter if I use an amp such as the JL Audio XD700/5?
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- #62
Hillstones
Well-Known Member
I do not know. I have never heard any comparison setups using pre-amp outputs vs. a line out converter from high-level speaker outputs. Since the amp handles both without a converter necessary, I don't know if there would be any difference in sound quality. Perhaps someone with more audio experience and level testing could chime in. I guess you could test either scenario using the speaker outputs and then adding a line out converter to see if you hear a difference, but that could be a lot of work re-wiring just to test it out. Any variance in volume would skew the result into believing the louder one sounds better. Since you have the standard stereo with the built-in 160w amp, you could get a line out converter and go that route using the JL Audio amp (or any other amp). I think the LOCs were primarily used with amps that only accept a pre-amp level input, but most today accept both low level and high level inputs. My situation was different because I needed an amp that could accept differential balanced inputs.
Bulkybear
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I'm the past I have had terrible sound quality using high level inputs and would rather use a line out converter. That could vary by amp but im biased because of past experiences lol.
PR k24
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What if you just want a Pre-amp how would you go of installing it with the factory premium sound?
ADExternal
Lvl: 99 Modifier
The premium sound already has a preamp or are you asking about something else.
BWill9886
Well-Known Member
This thread was helpful in reminding me about the differential balanced inputs! Nearly tried to use one without them, which would have led to a lot of wasted time.
Got my setup done a couple weeks ago. Ended up going with a JL 700/5 as well, but mounted on the back of the rear seat (I have passengers often and didn't want to worry about it). Did the job perfectly and you gotta love the size!
I'm running a complete Image Dynamics component setup with a 10" sub. Would be nice to have a bit more bass to play with on rock music, but you can't expect that with the wattage and my setup.
Modifying the openings for those speakers without a good cutting tool (Rotary tool with some mediocre cutting disks) wasn't fun, but the results were worth it.
Got my setup done a couple weeks ago. Ended up going with a JL 700/5 as well, but mounted on the back of the rear seat (I have passengers often and didn't want to worry about it). Did the job perfectly and you gotta love the size!
I'm running a complete Image Dynamics component setup with a 10" sub. Would be nice to have a bit more bass to play with on rock music, but you can't expect that with the wattage and my setup.
Modifying the openings for those speakers without a good cutting tool (Rotary tool with some mediocre cutting disks) wasn't fun, but the results were worth it.
skwirl007
Well-Known Member
with oscillosope we found mine at 36. factory HU with JL DSP and SSI
tslyjr
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Hillstones or anyone? I followed this post and hooked up a JL700/5 amp and an aftermarket JL 8' sub with enclosure, I kept the stock front components and rear deck speakers. I have a 2014 Si and the stock speakers (except the sub), appear to have the large magnets and are possibly made of kevlar from the appearance, made by a company called Foster/Fostex. The factory tweeters look like aluminum foil type tweeters. Do you think I will see a great improvement if I go to aftermarket speakers still? Doesn't seem to sound too shabby right now, but if aftermarket speakers will make a difference, ill swap.
I was thinking of swapping out for this set of component speakers:
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_130TSA1605/Pioneer-TS-A1605C.html
and this set of two way coax for the deck:
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_107DB651S/Polk-Audio-db651s.html
I was thinking of swapping out for this set of component speakers:
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_130TSA1605/Pioneer-TS-A1605C.html
and this set of two way coax for the deck:
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_107DB651S/Polk-Audio-db651s.html
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- #69
Hillstones
Well-Known Member
How did you keep your stock front component speakers without a crossover? I assume you removed the factory amp and replaced it with the JL amp. Did you add an aftermarket crossover to keep the front speakers? The Civic does not have a crossover for the front speakers. The lousy factory amp handled the frequency crossover for the front speakers, rear speakers and sub. I thought the OEM speakers sounded pretty bad, but that was also the fault of the factory amp. I never heard the stock speakers with an aftermarket amp, so I could not tell you if it sounds better, same, or worse. When upgrading a stereo, keeping stock speakers is never a good idea because they would still produce poor sound since they are poor speakers in general. The Polk Audio 651s have good sound. Could not tell you about the Pioneers. I went with Focal speakers and they sound fantastic.
tslyjr
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I did not run any other cross over for the fronts, I just hooked it up as you described running RCA straight from the factory amp input harness to the JL which replaced the factory amp completely and then from the JL back to the output harness. It seemed to have worked without problems... Far as I know... The only cross overs being used are the ones built into the JL amp. I do think I am getting a little of a crackle noise every now and then, but I haven't determined if that in my head or actually from the front speakers or if that could even be related. I had a hard time at first as the Amp was surging/popping through the speakers every time I turned off the car and had to find an alternative remote on/off to tap into and got rid of it.
I was trying to find the same Focal speakers you used and I can't seem to find them for sale in the Integration 6.5'' series, Im afraid to ask the local shop if they can order them (they love overpricing, especially if its special order/they don't carry the Integration series). Just looking at Crutchfield, whom I called to ask about their sizing/fitment reasoning, it seems like we are limited to speakers based on top mount depth if we want to retain the OEM speaker grills with a little trimming to maintain the stock look, otherwise the grills in the doors or rear deck will be touching the speaker (at least is what they told me about using 2 way coax in the rear deck). I was planning on upgrading the speakers, I was impressed that the stock premium speakers were not paper cone type and rather possibly a kevlar, which is typically associated with pretty good performing speakers.
BWill9886
Well-Known Member
Yes, the stock speakers are quite nice, and like you said tslyjr, the 2013 Si gets better rear ones than what Hillstones pulled out of his EX-L. As you saw, the build quality is nice and Foster is a good brand. They sound so bad due to the stock amp changing the EQ up protect the system.
As long as you add crossovers and don't over power them (which you might be getting close to with the JL tslyjr, though I have no idea what they can handle), they provide a great option until you want to get serious.
Just a helpful FYI, I was able to fit Image Dynamic CXS64 v.2's and CTX 65's (same size as CXS, but with a bigger but less efficient magnet) with 1/2" MDF spacers. The magnets stick out under the door track, but do not interfere with anything.
As far as under the rear deck, you are correct on clearances. I don't know that I could have fit the coax CTX's (though fortunately I had the component setup laying around). Definitely take the tweeter height into consideration, as there is almost no room.
Also, those speakers are labelled 6.5's but are really 6.75, so cutting the "tabs" in the openings was necessary.
As long as you add crossovers and don't over power them (which you might be getting close to with the JL tslyjr, though I have no idea what they can handle), they provide a great option until you want to get serious.
Just a helpful FYI, I was able to fit Image Dynamic CXS64 v.2's and CTX 65's (same size as CXS, but with a bigger but less efficient magnet) with 1/2" MDF spacers. The magnets stick out under the door track, but do not interfere with anything.
As far as under the rear deck, you are correct on clearances. I don't know that I could have fit the coax CTX's (though fortunately I had the component setup laying around). Definitely take the tweeter height into consideration, as there is almost no room.
Also, those speakers are labelled 6.5's but are really 6.75, so cutting the "tabs" in the openings was necessary.
NateDaGreat58
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Hi, I'm new to the forum and this thread has been quite helpful. I have two questions If you mind me asking,
1. How much was the total cost of this upgrade? (Shop Labor, New Speakers, Amp, Sub, Etc..)
2. Would the new 2014 Civic sedans EX/SI (with stock Display Audio HU) be able to be upgraded like this as well?
Thank you for your time!
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- #73
Hillstones
Well-Known Member
1. I will send you a message with the breakdown of the total cost.
2. It might work with the 2014 Civic EX/SI with the Premium Sound. According to Honda parts sites, the part numbers for the external amps in the 2013 and 2014 both start with 39186-TS8. The 2013 ends with A51 and the 2014 ends with A71. If they are using the same model external amp, then I would think the wiring would be the same and you could use the wiring diagrams posted here to replace the factory amp with an external amp that is compatible with differential balanced inputs.
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- #74
Hillstones
Well-Known Member
That is not correct. The EX coupe, EX-L coupe, and Si sedan/coupe have the Premium Audio System with the same speakers…front, rear, and woofer. The Honda parts sites have the same part numbers for all of the speakers in the EX coupe, EX-L coupe, and Si models. They are inexpensive speakers. $55 for the woofer, $40 for the rear, $30 for the door, and $19 for the tweeter. Foster might be a good brand, but these OEM speakers appear to be low quality. They felt cheap in my hand after they were pulled from the car. The speakers in the LX are Pioneer, and even cheaper. $8 for a rear speaker.
BWill9886
Well-Known Member
Yea, I checked the part numbers too, but actually it is correct. The magnets on all the speakers are the same size in my vehicle (I have a thread on the other forum with their pictures, as they're for sale now).
Price also doesn't dictate that they are automatically bad either. They are certainly not the quality of the kevlar cones on my Chameleons, but they are far better than many other "premium" audio speakers I've pulled out.
You rewire, hook up crossovers for the front, add a decent amp (a JBL MS-8 would be even better!) and I guarantee it sounds a ton better. Like it's been stated before in other threads about the premium audio: The factory EQ settings (like in most cars) are what suck the life out of the system. Great for longevity, but bad for quality. Hell I ran the stockers with the JL just for kicks and the mids sounded MUCH better than before.
You're more than welcome to keep your opinion of them, but I'm telling you that from experience they don't HAVE to be replaced for a budget-oriented sound upgrade. Trust me, we agree that anyone used to an aftermarket system will not approve of keeping them around. However, for most people I'd say this is a good option to try before you decide to just toss/sell them.
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- #76
Hillstones
Well-Known Member
All good points, but my comment about price was not why I thought they were cheap. After they were removed from my car, they felt cheaply made in my hand. Since they were built to OEM specs, I am sure they are not the same quality as your typical aftermarket Foster speaker. Your Si is a Sedan, and I have a coupe. So perhaps the rear speakers in the sedan are different than those used in the coupe…since the sedan has a larger interior space. That could be the reason. Interesting Honda has the same part number, but your rear speakers had magnets that were as large as the door speakers. Yep, the factory amp ruins the sound in the Civic and anyone deciding to keep the factory amp is making a huge mistake. There is no way to improve the sound if the factory amp is retained. My Focal component speakers were $249 and the rear deck coaxials were $179. I did not have to buy expensive speakers for great sound, but good to know the factory Foster speakers can be improved by removing the factory amp and running an aftermarket amp. I took my OEM speakers to the Goodwill for electronics recycling. I don't think anyone would be interested in buying them since they could be replaced for $30 and $40. The OEM tweeters were destroyed by the shop since Honda glues them into the A pillar.
BWill9886
Well-Known Member
We will see about selling them. Tweeters and amp were already sold. People at the very least need blown speaker replacements haha!
Your tweeters were glued? Mine were in a plastic mount that is only held to the A-pillar with 3 screws.
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- #78
Hillstones
Well-Known Member
I have been trying to sell the amp on eBay, but no luck. Maybe my tweeters were not glued. I did not do the install, so I was taking a guess because I thought I read somewhere that the tweeters were glued into the pillars and had to be heated to remove them. Maybe those were older models.
BWill9886
Well-Known Member
Yeah there happened to be a guy who blew his amp and one tweeter (I'm curious to know how, but didn't ask).
Also I just realized they may have used that plastic mount for their new tweeters. They are glued to that, but I thought most were too big for the mounts. Also I'd think it would be less of a hassle to just mount the new ones to the A pillar.