Cold Start "Scraping/Rattle" Noise Grinding Cold Start - VTC Actuator Merged Threads

Discussion in 'Mechanical Problems & Technical Chat' started by mno86, Jan 31, 2014.

  1. PainlessCandy

    PainlessCandy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    350
    Location:
    Cleveland
    Vehicle Model:
    Civic Si
    Body Style:
    Coupe
    Over the course of doing my research, I have come across half a dozen '12 and '13 Si owners who have this problem under 10k miles. :(
     
  2. Bulkybear

    Bulkybear Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,665
    Mine has done it once, I'm at 19k miles on a 2012 Si
     
  3. JonnyRotten

    JonnyRotten Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,672
    Location:
    Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
    Vehicle Model:
    Civic Si
    Body Style:
    coupe
    I drive a '14 Si and mine does it when it's colder out first thing in the morning @PainlessCandy
    I'm waiting for the updated solenoid that you mentioned earlier to be released before I say anything to my dealership.
     
    PainlessCandy likes this.
  4. BitchStewie

    BitchStewie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2
    Oddly enough, Honda modified their service bulletin at the beginning of March saying they are looking into an updated part to fix this.

    I've put tons of these in 2.4 motors. They fix it temporarily, but it hasn't previously been a guaranteed fix. I can't wait for them to come out with for the bulletin update / new repair procedure.
     
    PainlessCandy likes this.
  5. JonnyRotten

    JonnyRotten Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,672
    Location:
    Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
    Vehicle Model:
    Civic Si
    Body Style:
    coupe
    @PainlessCandy @BitchStewie do either of you have any updates on the VTC actuator?
     
  6. JV63

    JV63 New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Hello everyone. New here but been having the vtc issue with my '13 CR-V since I bought it. So I'd like to follow this thread for updates. Would love nothing better than a new updated part for this issue. Knocks down an otherwise very good vehicle.

    As a side note, many of us CR-V owners have had good success in keeping the grind/rattle to a minimum during the cold temps buy using a better filter, MAHLE in my case, and full synthetic oil. Where I was getting the rattle daily during the winter, once I changed filter and oil it only happend 3 times and it's been silent since. A vast improvement. Now that it's warmer, it doesn't do it at all but I'll keep using the aftermarket filter none the less. I believe the better anti drain back valve helps the situation.

    Good luck to everyone. Would like this fixed otherwise contemplating trading in the vehicle for another brand.
     
    Darkout likes this.
  7. Bulkybear

    Bulkybear Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,665
    Imo this issue isn't a big enough deal to jettison the brand lol.
     
    PainlessCandy likes this.
  8. JV63

    JV63 New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Perhaps if the 2015 CR-V didn't have the vibration issues that have been in the news and acknowledged by Honda, I wuold ever consider updating mine with a 2015. But it seems Honda has been taking a bit of a publicity hit lately. If the continued degrading of the vtc causes further engine damage, that's enough reason to switch... for me and my tolerance level of automotive issues.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm a Honda fan (3 Accords and current V), but new vehicles shouldn't have major issues so early on. Bought the V in August of '13 and by that December it was grinding. At least from my past experience with the brand I expected better. I prefer the compact SUV segment so that does limit what I can get from Honda.
     
  9. scboff

    scboff Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1
    Our 13 does it when it's cold out but not every time
     
  10. Pir8pete

    Pir8pete Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    144
    all my si's did this 12, 13 and now my 14 right from new, has the start replaced on the 13 and it did nothing, was the dealers idea

    any news if they released the new VTC Actuators yet?
     
  11. Darkout
    • Supporting Member

    Darkout Supporting Member

    Messages:
    1,107
    Location:
    Cocoa, FL
    Vehicle Model:
    Civic Si
    Body Style:
    Coupe
    Just a side not as that rattle is due to low oil pressure at the VTC. I know toyota used to incorporate a drain back valve in their factory oil filters but now don't as I'm sure its a cost reduction to cheap out on filters. I would go for a quality aftermarket filter (outside of warranty time frame, otherwise use the honda filter to eliminate any possible ways to say the aftermarket filter caused issues) and a true full synthetic oil. The problem may be the oil passages to the VTC that cause the issue or the VTC itself or lack of primed oil. It doesn't get too cold here so I can't say I've had the issue yet but I would take this route first to see if any symptoms subside.
     
    Pir8pete likes this.
  12. PainlessCandy

    PainlessCandy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    350
    Location:
    Cleveland
    Vehicle Model:
    Civic Si
    Body Style:
    Coupe
    I was at the dealership Monday getting the rest of my summer tires put on and confirmed that they have not released the updated part yet. Interestingly, the tech who has done the majority of the work on my car (including the clutch replacement) mentioned that he knows this is also a problem with the CR-V's; something they adamantly refused knowledge of in the past. It appears that they are learning and that Honda is now acknowledging this as a problem instead of just saying it's normal or doesn't happen often enough to be an issue.
     
    JonnyRotten likes this.
  13. PainlessCandy

    PainlessCandy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    350
    Location:
    Cleveland
    Vehicle Model:
    Civic Si
    Body Style:
    Coupe
    @JV63 : I am curious about that particular filter as I have not heard of that brand before. In my experience the filter has not made any difference, be it aftermarket or Honda OEM. Also, what weight of oil did you change to, or is it the same? We should all be using full synthetic and nothing but for this engine, though I have read accounts of switching to a 5W-20 helping to prevent the rattle. I agree this is a troubling issue; what troubles me is not that it happens (all car manufacturers have issues like this with newly released models) but that it has taken Honda so long to acknowledge this problem and develop a solution for it - all the while telling their customers that this is normal and not causing any damage to their engines. As you may have read earlier, I have reason to believe this is causing damage to our engines, yet the part they are developing to fix this has not yet been released. :( I still believe in the brand, I just wish they would take more responsibility for their engineering failures. Hopefully the new part is debuted with a recall for all models with the 2.4 iVTEC to replace these parts, because that would be the right thing to do.

    @Darkout : While the issue can be solved by flushing the VTC Actuator with oil (and thus filling the cavities so that it cannot rattle) the problem lies in the locking pin that is inside the mechanism. It fails to lock the mechanism properly when subjected to freezing temperatures thus allowing the cam to rattle back and forth at startup. The problem has been solved for a few by equipping an Oil Accumulator that subsequently floods the mechanism immediately before startup. I do not think that the pathways or lack of oil are the cause of the problem, as this particular mechanism is designed to drain of oil after a long period of inactivity (approx 6 hours).
     
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  14. Darkout
    • Supporting Member

    Darkout Supporting Member

    Messages:
    1,107
    Location:
    Cocoa, FL
    Vehicle Model:
    Civic Si
    Body Style:
    Coupe


    If that was mentioned before I never saw it but you obviously know more and appreciate the info about the issue. Glad to hear a definitive reason for it. The main point I meant was the drain back valve in the filter to keep the system primed to limit the lack of oil. But if it's a design flaw then it's up to Honda ultimately to find a fix or like you said using a priming system before actual start up.
     
  15. littleshak

    littleshak Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    265
    Location:
    Rillton, Pa
    Vehicle Model:
    fg4
    Body Style:
    Coupe
    My 15 si. With 5500 miles, just started making this grinding noise when i start it. It has only done it about 4 or 5 times now and it's only been in the morning when the temps were 40°F or lower. The first time it happened i thought my starter was sticking.
     
  16. Gilles LeClair

    Gilles LeClair Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    173
    Location:
    Moncton, NB. Canada
    Vehicle Model:
    Civic Si
    Body Style:
    Sedan
    I also have a 2015 with this issue, i'm at about 15 000 kms ..
     
  17. littleshak

    littleshak Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    265
    Location:
    Rillton, Pa
    Vehicle Model:
    fg4
    Body Style:
    Coupe
    I'm sitting in the waiting room at my Honda dealer and i was just told by the service writer that Honda told them the vtec system has been revised and they should have a "fix for the vtc actuator" by spring.
     
  18. chirp the 1-2

    chirp the 1-2 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    32
    luckily I haven't had it yet but now that its winter time I start my car with my head sticking out the window like an idiot every time lol
     
  19. JonnyRotten

    JonnyRotten Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,672
    Location:
    Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
    Vehicle Model:
    Civic Si
    Body Style:
    coupe
    You don't need to stick your head out the window. You'll easily hear it from inside the car if it happens. It lasts for less than a second though.
     
  20. Daniel Bivona

    Daniel Bivona Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    178
    Location:
    Pompton Plains, NJ
    Vehicle Model:
    Si
    Body Style:
    FB6
    Yeah, I've been priming mine simply by turning key to AC position and waiting about 8 seconds or so, then firing up engine. Helps reduce that grinding noise in cold weather for me so far.
     

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