Cold Start "Scraping/Rattle" Noise Grinding Cold Start - VTC Actuator Merged Threads

Discussion in 'Mechanical Problems & Technical Chat' started by mno86, Jan 31, 2014.

  1. Darkout
    • Supporting Member

    Darkout Supporting Member

    Messages:
    1,107
    Location:
    Cocoa, FL
    Vehicle Model:
    Civic Si
    Body Style:
    Coupe
    That is just a fuel system prime, the motor doesn't turn over so oil isn't being pumped through the engine till you crank it. You would need a separate electric oil pump and plumb it to your motor.
     
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  2. PainlessCandy

    PainlessCandy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    331
    Location:
    Cleveland
    Vehicle Model:
    Civic Si
    Body Style:
    Coupe
    Been awhile since I looked at this thread. Now that we are getting into cold weather again, I have had it happen 3 or 4 times this year. Can anyone else confirm what Honda has told @littleshak ? I have moved since I was in contact with American Honda Corp and cannot find the phone number I had to contact the rep who was dealing with my case anywhere, and the amazing service rep I had at my dealership recently found a new job so I can't just text him to ask for updates. Sad to see this is still a problem with the '15, which means it's taking them almost 4 years to develop a new part to replace these faulty actuators.
     
  3. PainlessCandy

    PainlessCandy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    331
    Location:
    Cleveland
    Vehicle Model:
    Civic Si
    Body Style:
    Coupe
    Or an oil accumulator. Has anyone put one on their Si over the last year? I'm curious how much it would cost, and where you would mount it.
     
  4. JakeDBP

    JakeDBP Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    408
    Location:
    Erie, PA
    Vehicle Model:
    Civic Si FB6
    Body Style:
    Sedan
    Hi all, just checking in on the VTC Actuator thread... my 2013 Si has been making the grind on cold starts after sitting for a few hours and I'm interested to see if Honda has made a fix yet? Can't find a TSB for the Civic.
     
  5. Scornio

    Scornio Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    252
    Location:
    Texas, Midland
    Vehicle Model:
    Civic Si
    Body Style:
    Sedan
    I'm also checking in. I have a 2013 Si and i bought it with 4 miles on it in the summer of 2013. Its made the noise that winter and every winter after that till now. I hope it's not doing to much damage but I have noticed that turning the key to the on position does help but it might be just a coincidence considering there is no oil flowing at that time.
     
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  6. PainlessCandy

    PainlessCandy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    331
    Location:
    Cleveland
    Vehicle Model:
    Civic Si
    Body Style:
    Coupe
    I got on the phone to Honda Corp this past weekend and verified that no new part has been released, and no one up to the Midwest Regional Service Manager knows when it might be finished. Looks like we're waiting at least another year for this problem to be fixed...

    Be aware that when the new part is released, it may not be released with a TSB so your particular dealer might not know what they are looking for at a glance. No TSB has been released with regards to the noise this problem makes thus far, to my knowledge.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
     
  7. Pir8pete

    Pir8pete Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    144
    Can't believable that Honda hasn't coming up with a solution to this problem yet, it's been an issue since 2012 for the civic. But they can keep making new generations vehicles. Shows how much priority we are as an existing customer!!! Don't think I'll be buying another Honda product again, even the Acura line up has issues.
     
  8. PainlessCandy

    PainlessCandy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    331
    Location:
    Cleveland
    Vehicle Model:
    Civic Si
    Body Style:
    Coupe
    To be fair, many manufacturers have issues with this sort of system; Nissan is probably the most notorious. What irks me about the situation is that they aren't officially acknowledging this problem: there is no TSB regarding it and I have to forcibly go above my dealership's head just to find out if an updated part has been released. All of that is compounded by the fact that our cars are far from the only model experiencing this issue; the CR-V utilizes the same K24 motor and has the same exact problem regularly (my mom has one and constantly complains about it). It's not like they are engineering an updated part for only a hand full of vehicles, there must be thousands - if not tens of thousands - of these motors sharing the same problem in the US alone.
    The other thing I really don't like is that they keep telling me over and over that it isn't hurting anything and to just ignore it. I find it extremely hard to believe that is the case when sometimes it grinds so badly that the engine dies and I have to restart it.

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  9. JonnyRotten

    JonnyRotten Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,672
    Location:
    Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
    Vehicle Model:
    Civic Si
    Body Style:
    coupe
    Honda needs your engine to die eventually so that you will buy another vehicle.
    That's what keeps Honda Corp. alive and well.
     
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  10. PainlessCandy

    PainlessCandy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    331
    Location:
    Cleveland
    Vehicle Model:
    Civic Si
    Body Style:
    Coupe
    Fortunately for them, engines do not last forever even when they operate perfectly. But if mine is the first to have a catastrophic failure due to the timing chain coming apart, I'll be right back here saying, "I told you so!"

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  11. jarodnesss

    jarodnesss Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Murfreesboro, TN
    Vehicle Model:
    SI
    Body Style:
    Sedan
    Is there any updates on this? I just bought my '13 SI right before summer this year. I just rolled to 85k as the winter hit. It's finally getting into the 20's now and the famous VTC grindind is happening. Out of all the threads I have read, this one has actually gotten close to the 'true' fix for this problem.

    @PainlessCandy Is there any sort of updates?
     
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  12. PainlessCandy

    PainlessCandy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    331
    Location:
    Cleveland
    Vehicle Model:
    Civic Si
    Body Style:
    Coupe
    I have not seen an updated part as of yet. Last I checked was in September. I have had my chain checked since then and there is no reported stretching or issues, though I feel the tensioner probably needs replaced soon.

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  13. jarodnesss

    jarodnesss Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Murfreesboro, TN
    Vehicle Model:
    SI
    Body Style:
    Sedan
    http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/51-8th-generation/446881-vtc-actuator-issue-solved.html

    So sortly after commented on this post. I stumbled across this thread. Also I called my local dealership about my issue. Doing the night drop off and morning cold start thing to see if they wanna fix it for lol..

    Let me know what you think about the thread I posted.

    Thanks,
     
  14. PainlessCandy

    PainlessCandy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    331
    Location:
    Cleveland
    Vehicle Model:
    Civic Si
    Body Style:
    Coupe
    Most of it looks like good information. I will be contacting Honda again to verify. Two things seem rather suspect to me. One, they left the Si off the TSB and are very specific about what other vehicles are effected. This might make it difficult to get our Si's worked on. Two, people are buying the replacement parts on eBay. They look to be available for cheaper through HondaPartsNow. Personally, I would never buy OEM parts to fix an issue like this on eBay - who knows where that part actually came from.

    The other thread there where a guy describes having catastrophic failure due to the timing chain jumping is an interesting read. As I currently suspected, it's not the chain but the tensioner that fails thus allowing the chain to come loose. I will be curious to see what you and others find out, as well as what my dealership will say.

    Personally, I recently had them do the valve adjustment since I am at 100k miles. There is a definite whirring noise that I pointed out to the tech who immediately responded, "that's not supposed to sound like that," which I believe to be the loosening tensioner. The valve adjustment did not change that noise, but did quiet down the valve train a little. After reading about the guy who lost an engine, I'm tempted to see if they are willing to replace the tensioner under warranty from my previous case.

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  15. jarodnesss

    jarodnesss Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Murfreesboro, TN
    Vehicle Model:
    SI
    Body Style:
    Sedan
    Yeah I just noticed the effected vehicles and that the 9th Gen Civic isn't on there. I'll do a follow up post on Saturday after I get my car back from the dealer :o
     
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  16. PainlessCandy

    PainlessCandy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    331
    Location:
    Cleveland
    Vehicle Model:
    Civic Si
    Body Style:
    Coupe
    I would take as much documentation with you as you can. It's all the same engine and faulty part; I don't see why they wouldn't include the Si in this TSB.

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  17. jarodnesss

    jarodnesss Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Murfreesboro, TN
    Vehicle Model:
    SI
    Body Style:
    Sedan
    Well I ended up not taking my car up there. He tried charging me $79 dollar just for them to start the car up in the morning and listen for the noise. Lol.. So from talking with him..our cars are not covered under the bulletin and from my understanding they would just be replacing it with the same damn part that failed already and charging me full for it.

    So I’m at a lose now. Do I just buy the part and fix it myself and have it **** up again later down the road..or just sell the car all together?
     
  18. FooBird
    • 2018 Toys For Tots
    • Supporting Member

    FooBird If the Foo...well, you know. Just wear it.

    Messages:
    5,657
    Location:
    Kirkland, WA
    Vehicle Model:
    Si
    Body Style:
    Coupe
    Sub'd for updates. Mine's been doing this for YEARS.
     
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  19. PainlessCandy

    PainlessCandy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    331
    Location:
    Cleveland
    Vehicle Model:
    Civic Si
    Body Style:
    Coupe
    I would address the issue with Honda Corporate. I had to get them involved to get my dealership to even acknowledge the problem in the first place years ago, it wouldn't surprise me if we needed their assistance now.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
     
  20. FooBird
    • 2018 Toys For Tots
    • Supporting Member

    FooBird If the Foo...well, you know. Just wear it.

    Messages:
    5,657
    Location:
    Kirkland, WA
    Vehicle Model:
    Si
    Body Style:
    Coupe
    And mine's gettin' really bad about this.
     

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