Reuters: Honda Tries to Regain Its Stride with Upgraded Civic

[mno86]

Honda Tries To Gain Stride With 2013 Civic​

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(Reuters) - Honda Motor Co introduced its redesigned Civic sedan only a year-and-a-half after a major model change of the best-selling compact car in the United States.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/29/us-autoshow-honda-civic-idUSBRE8AS1K020121129
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Interesting article. I confess to be quite upset by Mendel's statements. I found them to be poor excuses for the shortcomings of the 2012 Civic, especially in light of CEO Ito in Japan "taking responsibility for the 'failure' of the 2012 Civic" article that was floating around several months ago.

I found him to be a little defensive, arrogant, and downright dishonest in his responses here. The 2012 is not a bad car, but having owned two 8th gens, I saw what they removed that once existed for 2012, and are adding back for 2013. They definitely fixed something that shouldn't have needed a fix to begin with.

I am happy with my 2012 Si coupe - wish the interior headliner/carpet were higher quality and the fit and finish were given more attention, though), but I do think this car was a step back from the 8th: you want your subsequent generations to move forward, not backward. The 2013 is the car the 2012 should've been the entire time.

What is 9thCivic's thoughts on this? I'll elaborate how I feel in subsequent posts. Just wanted to set the stage!

 

[webby]

Mendel, as he has said several times this year, said on Thursday that Honda miscalculated the market after the Lehman Bros. collapse in 2008 and the beginning of the recent recession, which was when the 2012 Civic was being developed.


"We had anticipated," said Mendel, "that consumers would have a little bit different and more conservative view about driving. We underestimated the expectations. We zigged a little bit to provide them with the content that we thought they would want."

 

[mno86]

Exactly. I felt the same way. His logic makes absolutely no sense to me. He's basically saying that, due to the market being bad, Honda anticipated consumers wouldn't mind paying the same (or more) for less, in their new Civic. That they wouldn't mind a more utilitarian vehicle that lost its emphasis on the little details. and they "zigged a bit to provide the content people wanted". What content? The 2012 doesn't offer much more than the outgoing model spare the i-Mid (which is an awesome system, by the way, though it does need some UI tweaks). In one breath, he says he thought consumers wouldn't mind a "simpler" drive, but in the next he says they made concessions to give drivers more content. That would make sense, except they decontented the car - and anyone who drove an 8th gen can tell you that.

Now, I could understand this if the 2012 Civic retailed for signfiicantly less than the outgoing model, but (and correct me if I'm wrong), I don't think that was the case...

Additionally, with a modest price increase of around $150 for the 2013 model, I have a bit of a bitter feeling in my stomach because that's a lot of nice updates for $150 - makes me feel like I paid more for a lot less.

Also, the iPod comment had me raging. Comparing a $17,000-$25,000 vehicle to a $300 iPod is not a comparison at all. When you make a large investment like a vehicle, it is not asking too much to expect your vehicle to be an improvement from the model it replaced or to be the company's best foot forward. The fact that they decontented so much that was available on the 8th gen for 2012, and then immediately put it back in for 2013, tells me that Mendel's boots are knee deep in manure he's so full of it.

 

[webby]

Valid points. The iPod thing was a poor choice of comparison. While ipods (tech toys) are essentially updated yearly, cars aren't. From hondas history, a normal "mid cycle refresh" wouldn't even see this many changes. Usually, it would be a bumper/grill tweak, trunk bling, and some updated wheels. The 2013 goes WAY beyond that.

 

[Intrepid]

i feel as if i was ripped off, well not ripped off but upset that the 2013 has a lot of the features that i was really would have liked to have on my 2012 , although i was happy with the interior when i purchased the car i am thinking i may be envious of the 2013 interior upgrades, like the soft touch items and i would have really liked the better headliners. Hope that the added txt messaging features in the 2013 will be available to my 2012 via a update to the imid.

Maybe it will make our 2012's rare and desirable (one can only hope i guess)

 

[Ron Flood]

Valid points. The iPod thing was a poor choice of comparison. While ipods (tech toys) are essentially updated yearly, cars aren't. From hondas history, a normal "mid cycle refresh" wouldn't even see this many changes. Usually, it would be a bumper/grill tweak, trunk bling, and some updated wheels. The 2013 goes WAY beyond that.

yep i agree..... but i fortunitely bought my civic after it got pummelled by consumer reports... there were alot of incentives then.... altho the same car now in a 2013 is $50 more a month for 5 years, given my circumstances..... i saved $3000 to go twards aftermarket NAVI, 18" aftermarket tires and wheels and a full modulo body kit.... when i bought my car it was the most car for the money..... now if I were to buy a 2013, its not..... I do feel for the poor souls that never got it when they Honda was trying to maintain the best selling car in Canada(im sure they did the same in the US).... yes it has soft interior now, but its also got a little(ok alot) too much chrome inside and out... last place out of 12 is alarming honestly... honda really had to do something.... the biggest reason i bought a civic is because they are reliable and have a strong aftermarket... if i dont like something about it, i'll mod it, including the fugly interior material...

 

[mno86]

I'm glad you guys sympathize with me a bit. I'm on a few other forums, and I'm definitely in the minority on this topic.

I love how he was quick to point out that consumers shouldn't expect to see "refreshes" like this happen in the future so quickly. To have to fix a car so drastically after only one model year of sales (strong sales, all the same, though), I think that's profoundly disappointing. I expected more from Honda.

 

[mno86]

Maybe it will make our 2012's rare and desirable (one can only hope i guess)

I fear the inverse, actually. With the large amounts of 2012 Civics still on dealer lots, and the incentives they're having to make use of to sell them, I think it will very adversely impact our resale value. A dealership isn't going to want to put another 2012 on the lot when they're still trying to sell the new ones.
With the way Honda's used cars sell price wise (at least around here), you may as well almost buy new.
Additionally, I worry because it was only one model year that the car was sold that we're going to get the red headed stepchild treatment. Dealers will value 2012 models lower because they lacked some of the 'upgrades' the 2013 received, and the perceived value to consumers will be lower. A new 2013 may only cost $150 more than the 2012 model of the same trim level, but mark my words: our resale value is going to be a lot wider of a margin - and not in our favor.
This car very well might be remembered as the year Honda got their **** together. A lesson that will unfortunately be passed on to those of us who purchased 2012 models.
Some on other forums have disagreed with my assessment on this, but I really can't see this doing anything but hurting us, at least in the next 1-3 years. After that, this debacle might be distant enough of a memory to not impact resale as badly, but the wound is still fresh, and the dealership is a giant salt shaker to any of us wanting to sell.

 

[webby]

I think selling a 2012 right now would be bad, seeing as how they're trying to discount their inventory and clear them out. The dealership closest to me had 40 some 2012's the last time I counted. They also had 2013's on the lot. Once the dealerships are sold out of new 2012's, I think the tables will turn somewhat. As you've said, usually civics/hondas hold their resale value to a great degree. A lot of customers will have zero clue as to the 2012/2013 changes. They'll see cosmetic differences if they look at the two side by side, but the average consumer is not going to know the laundry list of changes between the two. They'll come in looking for a car, and see a civic. Some may know the consumer reports feedback, while others will have no idea. I guess time will tell.

 

[Dragos]

To be very honest I actually like the 2012 simplicity, if 2013 was the model when I bought it I would have went with a MS3 or WRX despite the bigger cost. The soft interiors are impractical to me, since they get scratched easier, and I strongly dislike the chrome everywhere I carry a lot of stuff with my cars and too much soft stuff gets scratched/marred easily.

If 2013 brought more performance then I would be a bit frustrated.

 

[thevietkid33]

Dont get me wrong i love my 9th gen Si, I'm just disappointed in Honda. Honda made a huge profit on there loyal following just because they could. Honda used its name and history to sell a below than average car. The 2013 gets a crap load of added features for a measly extra $200. My Si will most likely depreciate more than any other civic ever launched in the next 5 years due to the quick redesign. If this were just a facelift, which almost ever single honda gets after a few years, i could possibly understand, but to redo the entire interior, update the imid system with pandora sms, and also giving it a rear view camera, that's just ridiculous. This isn't just a few bells and whistles, but quite a few redesigns. What i don't understand is why Honda couldn't do this "update" after a few years. Look at the 2002 to 2005 civic model year, quite possibly the worst generation civic ever made, but Honda kept with it until the full cycle redesign was ready. To top things off Honda tries to cover this up by offering huge discounts on the 2012 before trying to sell the 2013s. I apologize about ranting on but i had to let this all out. In result my 2012 civic Si will be the last Honda i will ever own. I have only ever owned Honda vehicles, 1992 accord lx, 2005 civic si, 2006 civic Si, and now my 2012 civic si. After this quick redesign i feel taken advantage of and Honda is doing nothing about this, knowing full well they owe us 2012 civic owners atleast something. In result its time to venture off into another another brand. Bye Bye Honda. (side note - i know exactly how 2008 WRX owners feel lol)

 

[a.ultimo]

well i have had my 2012 for almost 2 years now 36,000 miles it hasn't had any issues. One thing the 2012 didnt lack was reliablilty. I'm most likely gonna get the sedan si in white! boy does that car look so much better then last years sedan. One thing that pissed me off about this years si coupe i dont know if it is the same for the sedan NO AUTO CLIMATE!. The ex has it coupe and sedan!

 

[Dar-Dar]

Valid points. The iPod thing was a poor choice of comparison. While ipods (tech toys) are essentially updated yearly, cars aren't. From hondas history, a normal "mid cycle refresh" wouldn't even see this many changes. Usually, it would be a bumper/grill tweak, trunk bling, and some updated wheels. The 2013 goes WAY beyond that.

New iPod connection.

It will probably change again next year. Lol.

 

[Engineer99]

The new iPod connection was done for practical reasons though. The larger connector size was preventing them from utilizing more of the space for internal components, and despite its size, had a slower data transfer speed.

On a side note, I wonder how the outrage over the 2012 to 2013 changeover compares to the EP3 Si buyers. That car was far from terrible, but it certainly the "balls to the walls" car that the 99-00 Si's were. Especially when you consider that the Type R based on the same car was so much better.

 

[DMS24]

Am I the only one who thinks the 2012 looks better overall? I don't like the chrome "accents" that will peel off after a few years. My sedan is perfectly fine without all of the chrome and strange looking wheels. I didn't care what Consumer Reports and Motor Trend thought, the 2012 Civics are awesome in every way, and as the 6th Honda in my family, it was perfect for my needs (we still have 4 of the 6). The 2013 is nothing more than a means of making it more interesting to the big magazine's liking, rather than looking at the customers curiosities. Honda should listen to the customers, rather than to them, as we are the ones driving them everyday, not the car reviewers. It would be nice to throw us 2012 owners a bone by allowing us to add some of the new features to our models.

 

[a.ultimo]

Am I the only one who thinks the 2012 looks better overall? I don't like the chrome "accents" that will peel off after a few years. My sedan is perfectly fine without all of the chrome and strange looking wheels. I didn't care what Consumer Reports and Motor Trend thought, the 2012 Civics are awesome in every way, and as the 6th Honda in my family, it was perfect for my needs (we still have 4 of the 6). The 2013 is nothing more than a means of making it more interesting to the big magazine's liking, rather than looking at the customers curiosities. Honda should listen to the customers, rather than to them, as we are the ones driving them everyday, not the car reviewers. It would be nice to throw us 2012 owners a bone by allowing us to add some of the new features to our models.

i think 2013 sedan looks much better but the wheels are ugly lol

 

[bdh63]

Im not really sure what all the fuss is about. I didnt buy a Honda civic for an abundant amount of features. I think I'm safe to say that most Americans who buy them arent either. And the sales numbers dont lie. The 2012 Honda Civic is the 5th best selling vehicle in the U.S. with November YTD sales numbers topping 284,000. That same number for the 2011 model was just over 200,000. There are only two cars that are selling more, one is the Honda Accord and the other is the Toyota Camry. When making the choice to buy my civic, comfort, mpg's, reliability, and resale were the deciding factors that led to the purchase over its competitors. In the end I bought a car for under $20000. If I wanted crappy little cheap from the factory features like touch screens, chrome accents, and backup cameras I wouldve bought the Chevy Cruze I test drove. And wait.. Did I just say back up camera?! Who needs a backup camera on a compact car? At the end of the day Its a Honda Civic. Ill drive it forever, it will rarely let me down, and Ill sell it for way more than most of its competitors will be going for 5 years down the road. Dont believe me? Hit up craigslist and do some price checking on some older models. The 2012 Honda civic offers a clean slate (as any civic should) that is begging for a plethora of aftermarket goodies that await me on the internets.

 

[mno86]

They also didn't have to rely on such ridiculously good incentives and cash on the hood to move the 2011 the way they did the 2012 Civic. However, you are right - most consumers won't notice, or care about the differences.

Dealers were sent memos urging them to deplete their 2012 Civic inventory in advance of the 2013 hitting lots. And they still have approximately a 45 day supply of Civic inventory nationwide (that's quite high, from what I understand). Below is a letter that Honda sent a dealership warning them of the consequences of not selling the 2012's before the 2013 arrives. I've omitted parts that refer to the Accord. The rest of the text is taken verbatim. Dealerships around me were practically giving the 2012 models away.

So while sales numbers are very important and representative of the success of a model (and the Civic remained a strong seller throughout the model year, despite a rocky, slow start due to awful reviews), they are not everything. This letter suggests a lot of Civics were sold as fleet vehicles (not a good sign, at all), and that, paired with the crazy incentives from November, tell me that that the 2012 Civic's sales success was fostered exclusively on the fact that it was called a Civic (the name alone sells), and because they probably had to negotiate and incentivize more to move them. One dealership I went to had a 2011 LX model on the floor, and a 2012 EX-L on the other side of the floor (in the dealership). He was telling me they would take the 2011 model out of the dealership and back on the lot because people were sitting in both and saying "What the hell happened?"

I expect "great" from Honda at all times - they owe it to their loyal consumers. If I wanted merely a "good" car, I'd have bought the competition, which, ironicaly, turned out to be rather great in comparison. If I didn't own an Si coupe, I would be livid with Honda right now.

Dear Honda Dealer,

...You may be aware that the refreshed 2013 Civic will be available for sale on November 29, 2012. When it arrives on your lots you will see dramatic improvements to the exterior styling that moves Civic into a more premium sporty direction. The interior has even more upgrades and improvements to bring more sophistication and quality to its appearance. As I said in Philadelphia, we are taking a good Civic that is currently the leading selling vehicle in the small car segment regardless of fleet sales, and made is a great car. This is a car the breathes the famous Honda driveability, quality, reliability (DQR) that has made Honda what it is today. A brand that consumers want us to produce for you to sell. This vehicle is not produced simply to catch up to our competition it is being produced to expand its dominance and reign once again as the bench mark of the small car segment.

Civic makes up almost 25% of our 990,000 Honda sales for the year - it is a critical component in our goal to reach 1.3 million sales for the year. For your dealership to take full advantage of the refreshed Civic and the marketing we will have supporting it you must greatly increase the turn rate on our 2012 Civics. With the unprecedented enhancements we have made to the current Civic after its first year in its cycle you will want to have little to no Civics on hand at arrival time of this refreshed 2013 model. The changes made to the 2013 model will make the outgoing 2012 Civic a difficult model sell when they are side to side. I strongly encourage you to discuss your Civic inventory situation with your district manager today, and set up a sell down strategy that will reduce your total remaining model year 2012 Civics by a minimum of 60% before December 1, 2012. I cannot stress enough, sell down of your 2012 Civics is critical to the 2013 Civic launch and the success of inventory balance at your dealership.

Take action now! The 2013 Civic will come to your at full speed. Our plant in Indiana which produces Civic will run at full capacity with Civic production, and we will even get production from Canada too. Commit to reduce your model year 2012 Civics by 60% or more before December 1, 2012. And be prepared on November 29, to receive the greatest Civic ever produced!

Sincerely,
David Hendley
Assistant Vice President Honda National Sales

 

[bdh63]

They also didn't have to rely on such ridiculously good incentives and cash on the hood to move the 2011 the way they did the 2012 Civic. However, you are right - most consumers won't notice, or care about the differences.

Dealers were sent memos urging them to deplete their 2012 Civic inventory in advance of the 2013 hitting lots. And they still have approximately a 45 day supply of Civic inventory nationwide (that's quite high, from what I understand). Below is a letter that Honda sent a dealership warning them of the consequences of not selling the 2012's before the 2013 arrives. I've omitted parts that refer to the Accord. The rest of the text is taken verbatim. Dealerships around me were practically giving the 2012 models away.

So while sales numbers are very important and representative of the success of a model (and the Civic remained a strong seller throughout the model year, despite a rocky, slow start due to awful reviews), they are not everything. This letter suggests a lot of Civics were sold as fleet vehicles (not a good sign, at all), and that, paired with the crazy incentives from November, tell me that that the 2012 Civic's sales success was fostered exclusively on the fact that it was called a Civic (the name alone sells), and because they probably had to negotiate and incentivize more to move them. One dealership I went to had a 2011 LX model on the floor, and a 2012 EX-L on the other side of the floor (in the dealership). He was telling me they would take the 2011 model out of the dealership and back on the lot because people were sitting in both and saying "What the hell happened?"

I expect "great" from Honda at all times - they owe it to their loyal consumers. If I wanted merely a "good" car, I'd have bought the competition, which, ironicaly, turned out to be rather great in comparison. If I didn't own an Si coupe, I would be livid with Honda right now.

I thought slow initial sales were due to the tsunami? http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/...in-short-supply-new-cr-v-delayed-a-month.html

Im sorry youre not happy with Honda. Your speculations seem a bit like piling on at this point, and are not backed up with fact. Are you sure you dont work for Toyota? Every dealer of every make receives letters from the manufacturer to sell off the previous year when the new models start to arrive.

In this case there are not enough differences here to get hyped about They simply made some refinements. I cant be mad about that. If the car had 100 more horsepower with leather interior standard on all models, sure id be right there with you but these changes arent enough to bunch my underoos over. So put down the bad review from consumer reports and go give your car a hug. You know you love it.

 

[Ron Flood]

I'm glad you guys sympathize with me a bit. I'm on a few other forums, and I'm definitely in the minority on this topic.

I love how he was quick to point out that consumers shouldn't expect to see "refreshes" like this happen in the future so quickly. To have to fix a car so drastically after only one model year of sales (strong sales, all the same, though), I think that's profoundly disappointing. I expected more from Honda.

haha they did the same thing with my 2001, in 2003 they looked much better... lol thank goodness the 2012s have a decent aftermarket... i love my EX, i do, but sadly its still an econo-box... i still drive my 2001 DX(work car), what got me into a 2012 was the fact it was exactly the same payments as my 2001 DX, 11 years later for an EX(with a few extras), $1000 down and $388 a month for 60 months... as consumers go, they raped us, no question.... but atleast i dont have as much chrome to get rid of on my 2012... lol



i still like the front of mine better than a 2013.... more fake chrome doesnt make it a better car.... and as far as the ridge on the hood, id prefer it flatter....