LX with SI rims causing steering wheel to jerk?

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snahfu

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Hopefully anyone can help.

Currently driving on 17 inch rims but I have some 18s SI rims that I purchased used. I had it wrapped in brand new michelin a/s 4 tires and thats where the problems begin.

The steering jerks left and right when driving on bumpy roads to a point where I feel very unsafe. I essentially have to grip the steering wheel tightly with both hands so I dont veer into another lane. Not only does it jerk, it feels as if the steering becomes disengaged with the tires and the steering wheel becomes very light and loose. On smooth roads, it drives fine.

After trying many suggestions from other users and failing to resolve this issue (3 tire balances, 2 alignments, front and rear suspension replaced) I finally decide to put back on my 17’s and low and behold, the problem disappears.

The issue seems to be the tires or rims, but all the tire guys have said the wheels are not bent and the tires are good.

What do you think may be causing this issue?

Specifics:
-Car: 2014 civic lx auto, 90k miles
-Car is not lowered (edit 7/12/2021, car is “kind of” lowered, I replaced the stock suspension with an OEM honda HFP (sport) suspension. Car rides stiffer and lowered by just 1/2 an inch)
-Both the 17’s and 18’s are OEM honda wheels
-17’s are 17x7 (P215/45R17) and 18’s are 18x7 (P225/40R18)
-According to honda, upsizing wheels should not be an issue and is within spec. Wheel geometry should not be an issue
-I am not using wheel spacers
-Hub was cleaned with steel wire bush and sits flush with wheel. I did not check the 18’s wheel bore so I will give it a thorough check as well. As far as I could tell, it is clean.
 
Just to add, this is one response I got on the cartalk forum by a user called "Mustangman":

Your suspension does not have stiff enough springs, strut mounts and firm enough struts to control those heavier, stiffer, low profile tires. This is a common problem when a performance wheel and tire is installed on the “non sport” version of a car even if they came on the sport version. There is a lot more to the sport version than just bigger wheels and tires. That is what is causing your problem.

I used to “tune” these systems as part of my job with a major automaker, so I am familiar with the problem.

Change back to the 17s.


So I am on HFP suspension which have stiffer springs, but is it still possible other parts such as sway bars have not been upgraded leading to these steering wheel issues? I've asked around on instagram where other people have placed SI rims on LX's and they did not experience such issue, but the explanation does make sense and sounds very plausible.

I guess I can just stick with the 17's but after spending so much money on new tires for the SI rims and trying to diagnose the problem, i've become very hard headed. :spazface:
 
If you put the original 17s back on and the issue resolved itself, then it has to be the wheelstires or both.

I would double check the other suspension components….tie rods, sway bar and links, any and all rubber bushings.

Swapping wheels to smaller or bigger sizes on regular suspension or modified suspension has been done sooooooo many times with no issues. That mustang dude is stalking out his poop hole.
 
Since the problem goes away with the 17's, I'd wager it's the tires on the si wheels. Certain tread patterns can really cause pulling and moving like you're describing. The fact that the problem goes away on smooth roads also points to that. If the si wheels had bends or issues, you'd really feel it on smooth roads. The tire tread on rough roads is causing it most likely. If you had suspension issues, the problem would persist with the 17's. I had a previous set of tires that would grab any lines in the road and pull the car in any direction.
 
I had a similar thing on my old Focus ST. It would road walk on uneven portions of the road. Just one of the characteristics of that car
 
can you upload the alignment specs? I am thinking you may have close to 0 toe...You can add some toe-in on the front to take away from the darting feeling, adding toe-in on the rear will keep the car tracking straight. Note: adding toe in will increase tire wear but is usually done to keep the car from feeling darty.

Bigger tires and rims can add to bumpsteer which seems like it's what you are experiencing but there doesn't seem away to correct it as long as all the suspension bushings are not worn.
 

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my dads infinity q60 would do something like this on uneven roads, it was actually scary, and it was all stock. are the tires wider than the 17s? as mentioned above, make sure you dont have any loose or worn front end components. have you tried rotating the tires, swapping front to back and see if its still there?
 
The si tire setup he has is 10mm wider or roughly 3/8”
 
freggie said:
can you upload the alignment specs? I am thinking you may have close to 0 toe...You can add some toe-in on the front to take away from the darting feeling, adding toe-in on the rear will keep the car tracking straight. Note: adding toe in will increase tire wear but is usually done to keep the car from feeling darty.

Bigger tires and rims can add to bumpsteer which seems like it's what you are experiencing but there doesn't seem away to correct it as long as all the suspension bushings are not worn.
Click to expand...

Thank you everyone for all the suggestions. Definitely going to try rotating the wheels to see if it makes any difference this weekend. Webby is correct, tires are wider by around 1/2 inch. I thought I would feel more planted to the ground but it actually feels more light and bouncy. I've already deflated the tires from 34 to 32.5 with no significant improvement. Will drop it lower to 31.5 just to see what happens.

As for the alignments:

First alignment before HFP suspension install
m9T4an1[1].png

Second alignment after HFP suspension install

gCMwN1Y[1].jpg
 
Dad said:
Weird that the caster is out just on the passenger front
Click to expand...
yeah, caster can cause a pull but i dont think its bad enough. im not sure why its off so much though. still curious if rotating the tires helped.
 
Rotating tires did not help.

I was under the car yesterday and noticed some play in the tie rod. Does anyone know if there should be this amount of play in our 9th gens? It also seems to make this 'clunking' noise. However, there is zero noise when driving.


Noise can probably only be heard if you have headphones on*
 
Can't hear much over your gloves. Rotational movement is normal since that's the point of balljoints/tie rods. As long as there's no side to side play in the wheels it's probably fine.

At this point I'd be taking it to a reputable mechanic to have it diagnosed.
 
Hi guys, just wanted to post an update.

To summarize, I installed new front and rear shocks + brand new tires but was experiencing a bouncy / floaty / unsafe ride. All the mechanics I went to did not notice anything unusual with the car.

Half a year later, I decided to do an alignment at another shop and low and behold, all my problems are gone. Car drives great now.

Please see screenshot below. The first picture was an alignment I got back in March (old shop) and the one next to it is the alignment I got today (new shop). Unfortunately, the new shop said they didnt have a before photo, only after but mentioned one toe was sticking out and the other was sticking in. I finally feel like the car is planted to the ground now.

The first shop was highly reputable with 500+ reviews on yelp, alignment chart looked good so no idea why doing a second alignment at another shop fixed all my issues.

I feel like a total idiot but glad its finally over. I can finally enjoy the hfp suspension on my lx.


xMHjgvd.jpg
 
Good to see it's fixed. Did you ask for that much rear camber or is that as good as it got with stock arms?
 
I'm back :sadbanana:

Car still doesnt feel as safe as it should be. Today I noticed some oil on the rear control arm bushing. Does this look like something that will need to be replaced? Left side is a picture I found on another user, right side is mine.

The car does not make any clunking noises or anything but I have a hard time keeping in a straight line, especially over wavy or bumpy roads.

lqJJrn7.jpg
 
Don't remember if you've tried but have you put the stock wheels back on to see if that's the issue?
 
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