Discussion in 'Garage' started by webby, Feb 11, 2019.
Amsoil should win but defeated by price
Despite adding a level of protection (like antiwear) to an oil or a particular function (like detergency) it's important to note that additives generally compromise the base oil, not enhance it without compromise....i.e., more is not always better. For example, you can't just throw a bunch of zinc (an antiwear agent) into an oil and expect it to always protect better. Additives are not lubricants, per se. It's the job of an chemist to balance those trade-offs. Despite adding certain limited advantages, additives actually compromise the base oil.
Quick note -- For base oil we know there are different levels of quality. That's also true of the additives market; there are different levels of quality. With V.I. for example, Amsoil uses the best out of the 6 possible grades of Viscosity Improvers (or so i'm told) their top choice coming out of Europe.
My guesses: Pennzoil might win the cold flow test. Amsoil might win the evap (Noack) test. None of the test results should be significant. Not sure how Penrite got into the semifinal -- it totally bombed the evaporative test -- but those in the Northeast changing oil every 3,000 - 7,000 should to take a close look at Pennzoil for its cold flow capability. That was impressive.
And its price/performance ratio is exceptional too.
Considering Amsoil's extended service life it might well be the better bargain, but only if you change oil once-a-year (or 25,000 miles) as specified. Otherwise Amsoil seems like an overkill; paying for longevity you won't need or use.
As a DYI customer I mostly use Pennzoil Ultra now. But if traveling cross country 6,000 - 7,000 miles or putting the engine through its WOT paces over Atlanta's Blood Mountain (or both) Amsoil provides better peace of mind after I get past 5,000 miles, and especially 7,500.
People say freeway driving is easier on a car. I'm not so sure that still applies if you're doing 80mph all day when it's 105 degrees outside, with the A/C going full blast and car loaded to the gills. I tend to think that's a pretty brutal environment for an engine.
Can't wait for the next batch of UOA to get posted. Then, let's share our findings with Project Farm!
your right about being hard on the engine that's why in very hot area use 05-20. I also think 05-20 still flows very well in winter but 0-20 is better in colder weather. Your right Pennziol has all ready proven the cold flow champ and I can only find 05-20w in Ultra pennziol. You should change out your coolant often-In that avenue either Honda coolant or Zerxo G5 $14 for two gals at Napa, is the only coolant to use. it looks like a very close finish maybe it's a tie. I would change out the oil on the road if I were you at 5,000 miles and use either a mobil 1 EP or a Napa platinum filter these two are the best.
....can't wait for the final showdown between Amsoil/Pennzoil!
Meanwhile, here's a guy who does fantastic tire reviews to help us pass the time:
almost forgot, he does another vid comparing the PSS -- which he called "the benchmark tire" for the entire world, with the new iteration of it - the Sport 4. He concluded that the new one is slightly better than the PSS. And given that the PSS is so good, any improvement at all is impressive.
I thought amsoil would win but doesn't win my cost test Ultra Pennziol does. I am still curious about the per of 0-20 and 05-20. I got 10qts of Pennzoil ultra 05-20 for $3 a qt nothing beat's this cost test, but next time it will cost $5 qt still the best cost test.
For $20.00+ a Qt I can't say I will switch to Amsoil. From my previous use of it I did not think it did that well. Even if you consider it can probably out perform Pennzoil in long distance racing you are paying nearly 4x the amount.
My conclusion here is that for daily driven use and occasional track use Pennzoil is the clear winner by cost and availability. I can find it locally at any retailer that has an automotive section meaning I don't have to order it and wait for it to arrive. You can often find it on sale for $27.99, for 5 quarts, or less if you actually bother with the mail in rebate. I have been and after seeing all the testing will continue to use the Pennzoil over other offerings.
In adding to my ever-growing stock of Pennzoil 5-quart jugs, I lucked onto this 10w-30 Ultra Platinum in the 1 QT bottles for just $1.00 more per quart. Deal. So instead of $5.00+ per quart, it's just $6.21/qt -- but will be shipped 6/18/19. That's a fabulous price for the singles; it's more often $10 - $12/qt. And using the 10w instead of a 5w is nothing to worry about. Slightly less fuel efficient at high RPM's that's all. [GEEK NOTE -- that's because of the internal fluid friction as derived by the Reynolds Equation]
Link to the singles:
And thanks for the rebate link guys... now Amazon provides the link too. And a big thanks to Todd over at Project Farm. His tests hardly duplicated engine operating conditions the way an ASTM would, but still... he made a few good points. If you read the comment section sounds like a ton of guys are switching to Pennzoil.
GEEKS ONLY SECTION:
General idea behind the Reynold's Equation:
Quiz in the morning guys... haha!
Is Amsoil really pushing $20/qt? Dang. As a dealer (back in the day) I paid about $10 - $12. For the money, Amsoil's 15w-40 Marine/Diesel was always the best bargain in their lineup. I used it in older cars all the time. While similar to other Amsoil products the 15w-40 came with a monster detergent/dispersant package to handle all the crap from diesel fuel.
Excellent for extended drain intervals too... obviously. TBN is about 15.
Some of my long haul trucker customers wouldn't even change the crankcase oil; they'd simply change the oil filters (both full flow and bypass) and add 2 quarts make-up oil to fill the new filters. Then they'd run those trucks another 12 months (or 100,000 miles) before doing it all over again, without a crankcase change.
In one well-documented case a trucker followed that oil change regime for over 600,000 miles. Finally Peterbilt came out and torn the engine down. Said it had the specs of an engine with just 70,000 - 75,000 miles. Details of that study are still on the Amsoil website i think.
Such an outcome not only speaks to the quality of Amsoil lubricants but to the effectiveness of bypass oil filters which eliminate particulate contamination down to the 1 micron level. Sure, the quality of the oil is important, but so is keeping it clean.
some amsoil on ebay came up with 0w-20 for $7.75. No clue if every weight they sell is different in price. I put like 5 quarts in the shopping cart and shipping was like $9 on the 5 quarts. Not sure if other people are charging 20 bucks offline.
My bad!! I was referring to the signature series the cheapest I found was 70 dollars for 5 Qt shipping included up to 18 dollars a Qt before shipping on Ebay.
We have a shop that sells Amsoil near me. I am sure you could probably find I cheaper from a local certified dealer but I never really asked for the price of the oil.
Amsoil cost too much, just don't see any reason to use it except if you can't change the oil for a long time. I change oil fairly early. So actually any decent oil should be good for me! the only question I have will the engine sound any better when starting?
Good work, webby, thanks. And the $7.75 is their "OE" line, which stands for Original Equipment. Good for just 7,500, max. Or probably half that under severe use. Needless to say, it doesn't have nearly the ingredients or TBN of their Signature Series.
Buying it locally is the way to go. Saves on shipping. And the larger "direct jobbers" (who typically own a store) are paid a higher percentage as their volume increases. So occasionally they will extend discounts to move product, though the big ones generally don't need to.
Easiest way to get discounts and a reasonable price is to purchase a dealership (now called Preferred Customer) and stock up. Or wait 'till i'm in town. I have a "lifetime" dealership that they don't sell anymore. Greedy bastards.
Two of my favorite Amsoil products are their oil filters and their "P.I"., a detergent based Performance Improver that cleans injectors, combustion chambers, and is shown to increase gas mileage as well. Their SS oil is excellent too. It's just that the competition has more or less caught up, not to mention being a better bargain.
btw, most injector cleaners like Techron are alcohol based, cheaper but not nearly as effective. See attached PDF.
Hey, that Amazon Rebate Form doesn't work. Does anyone have a link to one that does? Thanks guys!
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