Civic Si vs competitors

Bulkybear

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So I've been watching vids and reading about the civic si and its competitors. Things like the GTI, Mazda speed 3, and focus st. I understand the Si beating the GTI, those cars are nearly identicle in regards to performance. What I don't understand is in a track video against the Mazda speed 3 the Si won. Just watched a video of the 2013 focus st and it got a 14.6 quarter mile. Isn't the Si sedan rated at 14.5? I don't get it. The ms3 has something like 270hp and around that in torque. The ST has something like 250hp and 270 tq. How in the world can the Si compete with those. Our cars have like 200hp and 170 tq. Wondering what you guys think on the subject.
 
So I've been watching vids and reading about the civic si and its competitors. Things like the GTI, Mazda speed 3, and focus st. I understand the Si beating the GTI, those cars are nearly identicle in regards to performance. What I don't understand is in a track video against the Mazda speed 3 the Si won. Just watched a video of the 2013 focus st and it got a 14.6 quarter mile. Isn't the Si sedan rated at 14.5? I don't get it. The ms3 has something like 270hp and around that in torque. The ST has something like 250hp and 270 tq. How in the world can the Si compete with those. Our cars have like 200hp and 170 tq. Wondering what you guys think on the subject.

Have you considered the weight of the other cars and the hp/weight and torque/weight ratios. Just a thought.

Also, are the videos of professional drivers?
 
Weight does make a difference, my 600 lb. 800cc MC will beat all the above.........
 
I'm not sure how much those weigh tbh, but they are considered "compacts" aren't they? I wouldn't think they would be too much heavier than the Si. I know the ms3 vs Si video was a professional driver. The one I watched on the focus st was insideline.
 
The focus st is 3200 lbs. I believe our Si's are 2900. Motorcycles are a whole different beast but 300lbs shouldn't be that drastic for a car. And the more power from the st should counter the weight difference easy right?
 
Weight does make a difference, my 600 lb. 800cc MC will beat all the above.........

I used to have a Honda Rebel and it was only about 400 lbs and 250cc. A lot of people used to think they could outrun it off the line...
 
The focus st is 3200 lbs. I believe our Si's are 2900. Motorcycles are a whole different beast but 300lbs shouldn't be that drastic for a car. And the more power from the st should counter the weight difference easy right?

Mazdaspeed3 ranges from 2866-3046 lbs
Focus ST 3223 lbs
GTI 3113 lbs
Si ranges from 2895-2943 lbs

There are way too many models of GTI!

As far as the power from the ST, it would depend on where the peak is at. Among many other factors.
 
How do the numbers in the video compare to what you can find at this site:

http://www.zeroto60times.com/

(includes quarter mile time, too)

Found this gem while browsing the site:

2011 Chevrolet Camaro SLP ZL1 0-60 mph 3.1 :eek: Quarter Mile 11.0
 
So the power to weight seems like it would favor the other cars, despite being a few hundred lbs heavier because they also have a lot of power. What is it about the Si then that makes it hang with these cars and sometime edge out those cars?
 
So the power to weight seems like it would favor the other cars, despite being a few hundred lbs heavier because they also have a lot of power. What is it about the Si then that makes it hang with these cars and sometime edge out those cars?

Tires and drivers maybe?
 
How do the numbers in the video compare to what you can find at this site:

http://www.zeroto60times.com/

(includes quarter mile time, too)

Found this gem while browsing the site:

2011 Chevrolet Camaro SLP ZL1 0-60 mph 3.1 :eek: Quarter Mile 11.0
That site has the ST listed at a 14.3 quarter mile, the Si sedan at 14.5 and the ms3 at 13.7 (not sure how its in the 13s lol).
 
Videos I just watched put the ms3 in the low 14s. So all cars appear to be in the 14s. The others though are about half a second quicker to 60 than the Si. Given the Si is down on power to the others and only a few hundred lbs lighter I still wonder what it has that still has it competing with these cars. Seems like the Si vs these cars would come down to a driver race. Any other opinions out there? I'm feeling kind of proud of Honda right about now.
 
I think this is a very biased subject. Car reviews are rarely fully objective since they're payed to do the reviews and have contract dependencies. At the same time they're human and a car is a subjective thing.

I watched a video review where MS3 is coming out as a better track car, and also a bit faster and more stiffer suspension despite bland brake pedal feeling and feedback. MS3 has turbo lag, and so much torque steer that one cannot use the full power it can make all the time. I think MS3 is a bit faster on both track and road but it is also more expensive and less reliable. Tires make a big difference as mentioned so a real objective review has to have the same tires brand on both cars.

For me it was less enjoyable as well, and i did not want to own two identical body cars, considering I already have a 2.0 Mazda Hatch.

The video that suggest that is:



In the end enjoying a car is a personal subjective choice. I would have wanted a stiffer suspension and lower sitting position but either wise the Si is a very cool car. You can hear it, it gives feedback and as I always say naturally aspirated is always nicer.

I hold reliability very important so GTI and ST are disqualified from the start.
 
Definitely agree with you. But bias can only go so far. Nobody would deny that an Si would not keep up with an SRT8 in a drag even if your biased towards the Honda. And that's really what sticks in my mind. Despite the minuscule weight difference (imo) the specs should have cars like the ms3 and the focus ST walking all over the Si, yet you can find comparisons that go both ways. That to me says that the Si is competative to these cars. And that's where my question comes from. What does the Honda have that keeps it competitive with these other cars despite being a huge underdog. Thx for the input :D
 
I think the Honda has a very well put together car, some people keep complaining that it is not so innovative compared to the previous models and competition but that is also a plus in my opinion. They should have kept the suspension more stiff even if an extra cost and enhance the road feel than all the complaints would have been majorly diminished.

Honda has a great gearbox, overall car weights are lighter and I think gear ratios are taller for Honda then MS3 so Honda. So performance is closer in the under 100 mph range. As we go to higher speed i think MS3 is getting faster. The hp and torque graph may also shed some light in a comparison, the impressive numbers occur with Turbo on.

MS3
1st - 3,538
2nd -2,238
3rd - 1,535
4th - 1,171
5th - 1,085
6th - 0,853

Honda
1st - 3.267
2nd - 2.04
3rd - 1.429
4th - 1.073
5th - 0.83
6th - 0.647
 
Tire size and compound?

Example: The bmw 135 and nissan 370z are almost identical in specs, 0-60, and so on. However... the Z pulls much higher G's on the skid pad due to much larger and stickier tires.

Just think how competitive the civic is in autocross where driver skill and tires can make a huge difference.
 
That's a good point. But I normally don't like to factor in tires from the factory. Because its guaranteed at some point your going to change them out. And tbh I've never even looked into autocross. Not even enough to know what it is. The short video I saw someone doing it in was just an empty parking lot with a bunch of cones. After that I quit watching, mainly because if I were to do it I would probably hit a lot of cones lol.
 
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