PistolPete
Well-Known Member
I had come to the conclusion it was time to part ways with my beloved Impreza STI for something that got better gas mileage. I was having to impress it into every day use and by Subaru would have been costly to operate that way. In addition it was coming up on some pricey maintenance (60k maint, plus brakes and battery were due for replacement) and at the moment was worth quite a bit on the used market. I decided to find something new and sporty that got good gas mileage to replace it. I averaged between 20 and 21 mpg over the life of the STI, something in the 30 range would suit me better.
I had it narrowed down to a Civic SI and a Mini Cooper S. My wife liked the Mini better, but it was costing a bit more. We drove a Civic SI at another local dealership and I thought it was nice enough, like the Mini. The Mini had HID's available which I love. But basically, we hadn't decided we wanted a Civic yet when we went to Ed Napleton. We just went to see what it looked like in white, as I wanted a white one.
Turns out their website wasn't properly updated, as they had a picture of a white car but the car in stock was actually the dark silver (polished metal). But of course while we were inquiring about the car we got ourselves a salesman. Our salesman was super nice, and quite honestly the only reason we bought a car from them.
This isn't my first time at the new car rodeo, I know how the game is played. Quite honestly, you can make more money per hour by playing the car game than almost any other time in your life. You wait them out while they wile away the hours and eventually can come out ahead.
I was very clear with our salesman. "I'm considering a Civic SI. We'd want one in white. We like the Mini Cooper Si better, but it's more expensive. If the Civic costs enough less we'll buy it." This was pretty much what it came down to. I decided to trade in my car rather than have to deal with boy-racer tire kickers wanting to test drive it, and new that choice was going to cost me a few bills. But there's no reason to not try to have that decision cost me more than it needs to.
So I told them what the mini dealer offered me for my car against the sticker price of exactly the Mini I wanted (which would need to be ordered). My trade was worth a lot, so this amount was $4,000. Now, admittedly I would have ordered some extra items on the Mini that would have cost me more, like HID's and heated seats, but this was base MSRP vs base MSRP. I was very clear about what they needed to do to earn my business, something they asked several times already.
Of course they come back with a ridiculously high number, something like $5,800. I thanked the salesman and the manager and got up to leave. They seemed stunned. I told them, "I can get the Mini, which is a car I like better, for my car plus $4k. If the Civic will cost me more, there's no reason for me to waste your time. Thanks."
Well, this started the process of negotiation. I explained my case again and said if the Civic cost enough less I could be persuaded to buy it, but if it wasn't than it wasn't a big deal. Of course they kept coming back with numbers that were too high, but I brought reading material with me, so I wasn't sweating as they "talked about it" in the manager's office. It's a pain to have to sit there and be bored, but it's how the game is played.
We finally arrived at a price of my car plus $3,000 for a white Civic SI they'd get in from another dealership. The place was closing, so I returned the next morning to finish.
I had some concerns about the miles on the car they did have (66) and that it has terrible, terrible pin stripes. (my wife and I hate them both with a passion) We were assured the white one that came in would have less miles and no pin stripes, but based on the typical high pressure sales techniques I didn't have any faith that would actually be the case. They'd get whatever white one was available from a nearby dealer and then try to give me that one. Based on that, and my wife thinking the polished metal color was pretty snazzy, we decided we were open to the one they had on their lot.
So I returned the next morning and gave them the opportunity to persuade me to take the one they had on their lot. They agreed to remove the pin stripes (the most expensive tape in the world) and came down another $200. I was happy with the deal I was getting, they were making some money but not fleecing me. They would make a couple grand off my trade after they spruced it up (it's listed for $4,500 over what they gave me for it on their website now) so it was worth it for them to make the deal.
Of course when I got home I realized the pin stripes were put on very shoddily. Rather than have them muck up the finish by taking them off, I used a heat gun and pulled them off myself. They came off very easy. Except for the scratches in the finish where they cut the tape with a razor blade at every edge. There are 8 little vertical scratches from a razor blade cut at the termination spots of the pin stripes. Not a big deal, but it shows how ridiculous car dealers can be when they will actually deface a new car to make an extra $100 on a sale. Oh, and this car had the factory floor mats and a second set of rubber mats. Really? You feel the need to sell a customer two sets of floor mats? That's just stupid.
When I got to the finance office the guy didn't even bother pitching the high-margin add-ons they sell there. He asked if I wanted the info on them and I politely declined. Since the total I owed for the car was $2,800 they didn't try to sell me on their preferred finance company. Other than a legal doc regarding agreeing to arbitration it was a painless and speedy process.
But, I'm very happy with the car and I got a good deal on it. If you're prepared to devote 3 or 4 (or more) hours of your life to playing the car negotiation game, it could be a decent dealership to go to. If you don't like 2 levels of management trying to high pressure you and ask for you to "help them out" by giving them more money than maybe another dealership in St Louis is best for you.
I had it narrowed down to a Civic SI and a Mini Cooper S. My wife liked the Mini better, but it was costing a bit more. We drove a Civic SI at another local dealership and I thought it was nice enough, like the Mini. The Mini had HID's available which I love. But basically, we hadn't decided we wanted a Civic yet when we went to Ed Napleton. We just went to see what it looked like in white, as I wanted a white one.
Turns out their website wasn't properly updated, as they had a picture of a white car but the car in stock was actually the dark silver (polished metal). But of course while we were inquiring about the car we got ourselves a salesman. Our salesman was super nice, and quite honestly the only reason we bought a car from them.
This isn't my first time at the new car rodeo, I know how the game is played. Quite honestly, you can make more money per hour by playing the car game than almost any other time in your life. You wait them out while they wile away the hours and eventually can come out ahead.
I was very clear with our salesman. "I'm considering a Civic SI. We'd want one in white. We like the Mini Cooper Si better, but it's more expensive. If the Civic costs enough less we'll buy it." This was pretty much what it came down to. I decided to trade in my car rather than have to deal with boy-racer tire kickers wanting to test drive it, and new that choice was going to cost me a few bills. But there's no reason to not try to have that decision cost me more than it needs to.
So I told them what the mini dealer offered me for my car against the sticker price of exactly the Mini I wanted (which would need to be ordered). My trade was worth a lot, so this amount was $4,000. Now, admittedly I would have ordered some extra items on the Mini that would have cost me more, like HID's and heated seats, but this was base MSRP vs base MSRP. I was very clear about what they needed to do to earn my business, something they asked several times already.
Of course they come back with a ridiculously high number, something like $5,800. I thanked the salesman and the manager and got up to leave. They seemed stunned. I told them, "I can get the Mini, which is a car I like better, for my car plus $4k. If the Civic will cost me more, there's no reason for me to waste your time. Thanks."
Well, this started the process of negotiation. I explained my case again and said if the Civic cost enough less I could be persuaded to buy it, but if it wasn't than it wasn't a big deal. Of course they kept coming back with numbers that were too high, but I brought reading material with me, so I wasn't sweating as they "talked about it" in the manager's office. It's a pain to have to sit there and be bored, but it's how the game is played.
We finally arrived at a price of my car plus $3,000 for a white Civic SI they'd get in from another dealership. The place was closing, so I returned the next morning to finish.
I had some concerns about the miles on the car they did have (66) and that it has terrible, terrible pin stripes. (my wife and I hate them both with a passion) We were assured the white one that came in would have less miles and no pin stripes, but based on the typical high pressure sales techniques I didn't have any faith that would actually be the case. They'd get whatever white one was available from a nearby dealer and then try to give me that one. Based on that, and my wife thinking the polished metal color was pretty snazzy, we decided we were open to the one they had on their lot.
So I returned the next morning and gave them the opportunity to persuade me to take the one they had on their lot. They agreed to remove the pin stripes (the most expensive tape in the world) and came down another $200. I was happy with the deal I was getting, they were making some money but not fleecing me. They would make a couple grand off my trade after they spruced it up (it's listed for $4,500 over what they gave me for it on their website now) so it was worth it for them to make the deal.
Of course when I got home I realized the pin stripes were put on very shoddily. Rather than have them muck up the finish by taking them off, I used a heat gun and pulled them off myself. They came off very easy. Except for the scratches in the finish where they cut the tape with a razor blade at every edge. There are 8 little vertical scratches from a razor blade cut at the termination spots of the pin stripes. Not a big deal, but it shows how ridiculous car dealers can be when they will actually deface a new car to make an extra $100 on a sale. Oh, and this car had the factory floor mats and a second set of rubber mats. Really? You feel the need to sell a customer two sets of floor mats? That's just stupid.
When I got to the finance office the guy didn't even bother pitching the high-margin add-ons they sell there. He asked if I wanted the info on them and I politely declined. Since the total I owed for the car was $2,800 they didn't try to sell me on their preferred finance company. Other than a legal doc regarding agreeing to arbitration it was a painless and speedy process.
But, I'm very happy with the car and I got a good deal on it. If you're prepared to devote 3 or 4 (or more) hours of your life to playing the car negotiation game, it could be a decent dealership to go to. If you don't like 2 levels of management trying to high pressure you and ask for you to "help them out" by giving them more money than maybe another dealership in St Louis is best for you.
