Few suspension questions

[Ernesto Montano]

I'm looking to find what the best quality springs for my 13 Si are but also ones that go fairly low. I want to clear the wheel gap on the stock 17s

Also. Anyone know where and what brand front camber bolts I should get?

And third thing, I've seen some people who have like a weird looking like brace going across their engine bay, what is that and what is it for?

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[r18-power]

For the springs either skunk2 or d2 springs, those have the lowest drop, I had skunk2 on my old 12 Si and d2 springs on 15 si now.

For the camber kit get the spc front and rear. About that brace, its to make the car feel tighter/better handling.

 

[Nix]

1) Springs:

Most springs are pretty decent as long as you get them through a reputable vendor. The super cheap Ebay specials are as bad as they are inexpensive. Stick to the name brands and you will be fine. H&R make a very popular spring for your car. I believe they state a 1.3" drop. Anything over 1.5" and you should really consider rear camber arms. The skunk2 springs give a 2" drop which I think looks quite good but is very low.
(H&R, Eibach, Skunk2, etc..)

If you lower the car on stock struts with a set of springs you will wear the struts quicker. They may blow sooner and especially with a large drop so keep that in mind. Coilovers are popular because they include a strut but, if you haven't the budget all at once, get good springs and pick up a set of TruHart struts from redshift motorsports as your budget allows. Or run the stock struts until you run into problems and then upgrade.

TruHart struts:
http://store.redshiftmotorsports.com/product-p/truth-h505.htm

When you lower the car the front will not gain any negative camber. If it was 0 degrees it should stay 0 in the front. More front camber means better handling and more grip in the front.

In the rear, lowering will give you more negative camber. This is a very subjective number. I would not recommend anyone run more than -1.5 degrees front or rear on a street driven car. If you lower the car 1.5" in the rear or more your camber will be well over -2 degrees. It is true that camber does not wear the tires as badly as a poor toe setting but excessive camber will wear your tires. -2 or more is where you will start to notice wear on the inner shoulder much quicker. That said, I think -1 to -1.5 in the front and -1-ish in the rear is a nice balance of performance and tire life.

Rear camber arms can be picked up quite cheaply on Amazon as there is an SPC set rebranded as Dormans for less than $100 usually. That is a steal compared to the actual SPC arms or Skunk2 arms at near $300 for a set.



2) Camber bolts: Front 2012+ SI needs the 16mm bolt. SPC Part # SPC81280

For the front just pick up a set of SPC camber bolts. One set in the upper strut mounting hole should give you -1 to -1.3max adjustability. I have been running -1.2 in the front for a number of years on my Civic. I also run -0.8 in the rear but I did run into a rubbing issue so you may need a bit more depending on tire/wheel/low. Get two sets if you want more than -1.3-ish. Id' start with just one set and get the max you can out of them with both sides being even. On my car we were able to get -1.5 on one side but only -1.2 on the other so we set them both the same.

http://store.redshiftmotorsports.com/product-p/spc81280.htm


3) Strut Tower Brace:

Strut tower braces are popular for all the wrong reasons. On older cars they did help a lot with handling and chassis flex in the engine bay. Cars that have the struts out in the center of the bay can be kind of flexy from all the engine weight and handling forces running through there. Tying the tops of the struts together will help alleviate those issues.

However, on the Civic the struts are jammed up against the firewall and the A-pillar comes down to join in that area as well. It is one of the stiffest areas on the entire car and needs no extra bracing. If you want one just for fun and the look, get one. But know that it will not improve your handling. The plastic cowl covers that area pretty well so even the bling factor is kind of moot. There are better places on the car to spend money if you want it to handle better. If you want an easy bolt on project and like the look, get one. My thought is don't waste the money.



4) What to buy first:

What have you got so far? I recommend everyone the larger rear sway bar and flash pro. Those two things with a set of good tires and you'll have a totally different feeling and driving car. Get some front camber bolts if you're on a budget and max them out for some added bite.

Short list:
Wheels/better tires (expensive)

Larger rear sway bar - Just get the Progress 22mm bar. It's instant performance you can feel and use. I think the 24mm bar is a little overkill and the 22mm balances the car nicely without getting you into trouble at highway speeds.

Flashpro - If you don't have this get it.

 

[Ernesto Montano]

1) Springs:

Most springs are pretty decent as long as you get them through a reputable vendor. The super cheap Ebay specials are as bad as they are inexpensive. Stick to the name brands and you will be fine. H&R make a very popular spring for your car. I believe they state a 1.3" drop. Anything over 1.5" and you should really consider rear camber arms. The skunk2 springs give a 2" drop which I think looks quite good but is very low.
(H&R, Eibach, Skunk2, etc..)

If you lower the car on stock struts with a set of springs you will wear the struts quicker. They may blow sooner and especially with a large drop so keep that in mind. Coilovers are popular because they include a strut but, if you haven't the budget all at once, get good springs and pick up a set of TruHart struts from redshift motorsports as your budget allows. Or run the stock struts until you run into problems and then upgrade.

TruHart struts:
http://store.redshiftmotorsports.com/product-p/truth-h505.htm

When you lower the car the front will not gain any negative camber. If it was 0 degrees it should stay 0 in the front. More front camber means better handling and more grip in the front.

In the rear, lowering will give you more negative camber. This is a very subjective number. I would not recommend anyone run more than -1.5 degrees front or rear on a street driven car. If you lower the car 1.5" in the rear or more your camber will be well over -2 degrees. It is true that camber does not wear the tires as badly as a poor toe setting but excessive camber will wear your tires. -2 or more is where you will start to notice wear on the inner shoulder much quicker. That said, I think -1 to -1.5 in the front and -1-ish in the rear is a nice balance of performance and tire life.

Rear camber arms can be picked up quite cheaply on Amazon as there is an SPC set rebranded as Dormans for less than $100 usually. That is a steal compared to the actual SPC arms or Skunk2 arms at near $300 for a set.



2) Camber bolts: Front 2012+ SI needs the 16mm bolt. SPC Part # SPC81280

For the front just pick up a set of SPC camber bolts. One set in the upper strut mounting hole should give you -1 to -1.3max adjustability. I have been running -1.2 in the front for a number of years on my Civic. I also run -0.8 in the rear but I did run into a rubbing issue so you may need a bit more depending on tire/wheel/low. Get two sets if you want more than -1.3-ish. Id' start with just one set and get the max you can out of them with both sides being even. On my car we were able to get -1.5 on one side but only -1.2 on the other so we set them both the same.

http://store.redshiftmotorsports.com/product-p/spc81280.htm


3) Strut Tower Brace:

Strut tower braces are popular for all the wrong reasons. On older cars they did help a lot with handling and chassis flex in the engine bay. Cars that have the struts out in the center of the bay can be kind of flexy from all the engine weight and handling forces running through there. Tying the tops of the struts together will help alleviate those issues.

However, on the Civic the struts are jammed up against the firewall and the A-pillar comes down to join in that area as well. It is one of the stiffest areas on the entire car and needs no extra bracing. If you want one just for fun and the look, get one. But know that it will not improve your handling. The plastic cowl covers that area pretty well so even the bling factor is kind of moot. There are better places on the car to spend money if you want it to handle better. If you want an easy bolt on project and like the look, get one. My thought is don't waste the money.



4) What to buy first:

What have you got so far? I recommend everyone the larger rear sway bar and flash pro. Those two things with a set of good tires and you'll have a totally different feeling and driving car. Get some front camber bolts if you're on a budget and max them out for some added bite.

Short list:
Wheels/better tires (expensive)

Larger rear sway bar - Just get the Progress 22mm bar. It's instant performance you can feel and use. I think the 24mm bar is a little overkill and the 22mm balances the car nicely without getting you into trouble at highway speeds.

Flashpro - If you don't have this get it.

Wow what a beautiful post. Exactly the answers I was looking for.

My direction for the build is to first get the springs, I think I've decided on skunk2 because of the 2 inch drop.

My question is why do you think the 24mm sway bar is overkill? Do you not think I will ever want to upgrade after I get the 22mm? I have zero experience with after market sway bars and really don't know what to expect as far as the change in handling. What do you think about an upgraded front sway bar?

As of now all I have are the SPC rear camber arms (not yet installed, waiting for when I go low). I had no idea that front camber bolts are as good or fun as you are claiming.. It sounds amazing.

As for flashpro... Well the same reason I'm not getting coils at the moment, I just can't really afford the 700 at once. I'm also waiting for when I can get a downpipe and flashpro so i can install and tune it right after the install.

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[Ernesto Montano]

For the springs either skunk2 or d2 springs, those have the lowest drop, I had skunk2 on my old 12 Si and d2 springs on 15 si now.

For the camber kit get the spc front and rear. About that brace, its to make the car feel tighter/better handling.

Thanks for your input bro, your car looks amazing. Your wheel setup is really nice.

What's the drop on the d2 springs?

And how do they feel?

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[Nix]

Thanks man. I hoped to hit on each point with enough info but not overkill. Ill try to answer your other post before I head out in a minute here. Ask more questions if you've got em' and ill answer this evening.

Wow what a beautiful post. Exactly the answers I was looking for.

My direction for the build is to first get the springs, I think I've decided on skunk2 because of the 2 inch drop.

I think thats a great idea. I do think the 2" drop looks great on these cars. Be aware, that is a big drop! You'll need to drive carefully until you get used to it and be careful so you don't scrape on stuff. You will definitely need rear camber arms. Good thing you already have them.

My question is why do you think the 24mm sway bar is overkill? Do you not think I will ever want to upgrade after I get the 22mm? I have zero experience with after market sway bars and really don't know what to expect as far as the change in handling. What do you think about an upgraded front sway bar?

The rear sway changes the handling dynamics of the car a ton. Right now the car wants to understeer badly. The larger rear will make the rear of the car want to swing around more on you. You're basically fighting the factory understeer setup and making the car more neutral and rotate better. I have found that with a performance alignment and a 22mm sway bar the car gets a little twitchy at highway speeds. The 24mm will only make this more noticeable. I would say if you have been doing track days or auto cross and need more rotation you would know you want the 24mm. I think the 22 is a nice balance of performance without making the car tricky to drive. The improvement is huge over the stock bar. I don't know that the cost of the 24mm is justified either.

Try the 22mm first. I think you'll really like it. It won't break the bank and it's easy enough to install yourself. Use ramps, not jackstands.

Don't touch the front sway. Leave it alone! We are making the car handle better, not worse! You're eliminating body roll with the larger bar as well. The front of the car is already very very stiff. Upgrading the front will make the car feel super planted but it won't turn as well. Soft in the front, stiff in the rear. Thats how you get better grip with these cars so they turn instead of plowing.

I had no idea that front camber bolts are as good or fun as you are claiming.. It sounds amazing.

As for flashpro... Well the same reason I'm not getting coils at the moment, I just can't really afford the 700 at once. I'm also waiting for when I can get a downpipe and flashpro so i can install and tune it right after the install.

The front bolts won't do as much as the rear bar will. Turning up the front camber (more neg) will just let you use that new grip better and not kill the outer shoulders of your tires. You'll definitely want to start pushing the car harder and faster with the rear bar. More neg camber will help the front tires grip better and not roll under as badly. It's a minor tweak in comparison but for less than $30/set it's worth doing right. Don't be too disappointed if the camber settings aren't as noticeable as some of the other changes. It's all just one big system. Getting it all to play nice just means a great final product.

I agree with the FP/DP plan!

 

[Ernesto Montano]

Thanks man. I hoped to hit on each point with enough info but not overkill. Ill try to answer your other post before I head out in a minute here. Ask more questions if you've got em' and ill answer this evening.




I think thats a great idea. I do think the 2" drop looks great on these cars. Be aware, that is a big drop! You'll need to drive carefully until you get used to it and be careful so you don't scrape on stuff. You will definitely need rear camber arms. Good thing you already have them.





The rear sway changes the handling dynamics of the car a ton. Right now the car wants to understeer badly. The larger rear will make the rear of the car want to swing around more on you. You're basically fighting the factory understeer setup and making the car more neutral and rotate better. I have found that with a performance alignment and a 22mm sway bar the car gets a little twitchy at highway speeds. The 24mm will only make this more noticeable. I would say if you have been doing track days or auto cross and need more rotation you would know you want the 24mm. I think the 22 is a nice balance of performance without making the car tricky to drive. The improvement is huge over the stock bar. I don't know that the cost of the 24mm is justified either.

Try the 22mm first. I think you'll really like it. It won't break the bank and it's easy enough to install yourself. Use ramps, not jackstands.

Don't touch the front sway. Leave it alone! We are making the car handle better, not worse! You're eliminating body roll with the larger bar as well. The front of the car is already very very stiff. Upgrading the front will make the car feel super planted but it won't turn as well. Soft in the front, stiff in the rear. Thats how you get better grip with these cars so they turn instead of plowing.






The front bolts won't do as much as the rear bar will. Turning up the front camber (more neg) will just let you use that new grip better and not kill the outer shoulders of your tires. You'll definitely want to start pushing the car harder and faster with the rear bar. More neg camber will help the front tires grip better and not roll under as badly. It's a minor tweak in comparison but for less than $30/set it's worth doing right. Don't be too disappointed if the camber settings aren't as noticeable as some of the other changes. It's all just one big system. Getting it all to play nice just means a great final product.

I agree with the FP/DP plan!

Pretty much all I had to ask, and you killed it on the answers. Appreciate the answers as this clears up all the confusion I had and let me decide the exact path I want to take my build. Seems that for someone in my situation that modding the suspension and handling of the car before power is a no brainer as it has cheaper parts that you can buy as you go. Also I came from a base model civic being my first car so I am not even close to being bored with the power the stock Si has, so the FP/DP can wait.

And at the end of the day, having future plans for the car is what makes it fun. Must suck to finish a build and have nothing to do.

Thanks Nix, have a good day brother [emoji106]

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[r18-power]

Thanks for your input bro, your car looks amazing. Your wheel setup is really nice.

What's the drop on the d2 springs?

And how do they feel?

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Thanks bro, its a 2" drop. If I were you I would go with skunk2 like you said because skunk2 is actually a 2.25" drop which is great for 17" wheels, im on 18's with the d2 springs.

 

[dpetro1]

Are you guys running a 2" drop on stock struts? How's the longevity when going that low? How's the car ride?

 

[evinbrojer]

Thanks bro, its a 2" drop. If I were you I would go with skunk2 like you said because skunk2 is actually a 2.25" drop which is great for 17" wheels, im on 18's with the d2 springs.

Looking for a similar drop in my 13 on stock rims, how is driving with a 2" drop, i.e. Scraping on speed bumps and curbs?

Thanks in advance!

 

[r18-power]

Hey, driving city wise is just fine, some speed bumps I scrape some I don't it depends on how big they are, driveways it depends how big the bump is, when I went to visit my brother in GA I would always scrape my midpipe useless I took the car out of the driveway in an angle lol you'll learn your own techniques over time, but you should be fine. You'll love the look.

 

[evinbrojer]

Hey, driving city wise is just fine, some speed bumps I scrape some I don't it depends on how big they are, driveways it depends how big the bump is, when I went to visit my brother in GA I would always scrape my midpipe useless I took the car out of the driveway in an angle lol you'll learn your own techniques over time, but you should be fine. You'll love the look.

Thanks! For sure, my RSX had an 1.5" drop and I didn't hit anything. I was super cautious when driving though, but i want as little wheel gap as possible on the SI

 

[Nomar06]

I have H&R springs on stock struts and the splash guards were scraping on speedbumps if I went over them too fast and on certain driveways.

 

[bauer311]

I just dropped my car on truhart springs saturday. It's a 2" drop and I'm on stock struts. So far not much scraping issues, but I knew I would have to be cautious. I'm also on the stock 16" ex factory wheels. I have a '15 coupe. I'm loving the new look and feel of the car since the drop. Low life!

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