Turbo Kit and What Clutch

[GSquared]

So, I'm trying to get a turbo kit from somewhere and want to push 300-350 WHP on my DD.

For this power, based on what I have read and spoke with the companies about, a clutch upgrade is 100% needed. I also just spent a few hours trying to read about the different CC and CM clutches and what would be the best feeling clutch for a DD that could hold that power. I don't really like stiff clutches and the stock one is just all around fantastic feeling (wish it would work with that power).

Does anyone that has driven on both brands or either brand have any advise on which feels better for DD and what stage clutch to use? From what I have read all over its an almost tie favoring the CM brand a little based on feel. Also, I was looking at the clutches and couldn't figure out what type would be best for DDing either. The pucks are worse no? I was looking at the FX350: http://clutchmasters.com/index.php?module=site&action=GetPage&id=82&nav=leftnav_products.tpl

If that is a terrible decision let me know! Also, is the recommended flywheel still the 8th gen one even with the FlashPro that can clear the CEL (if I read correctly?)

 

[squiggy]

If I recall reading correctly here on the forum, one of the SC manufacturers has said that the stock clutch will be able to handle up 300-350 whp.

 

[Dar-Dar]

VitViper also mentioned that the stock clutch can take that much hp or around there.

 

[GSquared]

I was just going off what both FR and PRL told me, I figured since they ran the turbo kits themselves they would know one way or the other and both companies said 100% need a new clutch. One of them mentioned it was slipping at about 5psi on the dyno so they wouldn't even trust 4.5 on the street.

Edit: Also I believe I read Vit's comment on that and he wasn't sure but was guessing the 9th wasn't worse than the 8th and could hold that power was what I got from it.

 

[squiggy]

I was just going off what both FR and PRL told me, I figured since they ran the turbo kits themselves they would know one way or the other and both companies said 100% need a new clutch. One of them mentioned it was slipping at about 5psi on the dyno so they wouldn't even trust 4.5 on the street.

Edit: Also I believe I read Vit's comment on that and he wasn't sure but was guessing the 9th wasn't worse than the 8th and could hold that power was what I got from it.

There was actually a post of one of the companies blowing the clutch above the 350 mark during prototyping/testing (380ish?). They were actually surprised at how well the clutch handled. Hopefully someone will remember and post a link to it.

 

[GSquared]

Maybe Full-Race Geoff and prl motorsports can comment further on this as well?

EDIT: Also, looking at the Kraftwerks Supercharger kit, they also have a note when you go to the purchase page "Upgraded Clutch Recommended" They can't all be saying that for no reason...especially when the KW kit is probably making low 300s presumably?

Back to the question as well though, any recommendations on a smooth clutch?

 

[prl motorsports]

you'll definitely need a new clutch at anything over 250 ft. lbs of torque, which any forced induction kit will do. 5 lbs. of boost on our kit would slip the clutch mid dyno pull. it wasn't even like it would only slip between shifts, it just would instantly let go during the middle of a dyno pull. i guess some guys are now doing the lightened flywheels since flashpro allows you to turn off the misfire detection, which is what was giving the lightened flywheels a problem. it still will have to be an 8th gen style flywheel since there are no 9th flywheels and clutches available.

 

[Michael Kelley]

Maybe Full-Race Geoff and prl motorsports can comment further on this as well?

EDIT: Also, looking at the Kraftwerks Supercharger kit, they also have a note when you go to the purchase page "Upgraded Clutch Recommended" They can't all be saying that for no reason...especially when the KW kit is probably making low 300s presumably?

Back to the question as well though, any recommendations on a smooth clutch?

I'm going KW the second it comes out and I already have the CC Stg4 Clutch....i wouldn't call it "smooth" though. Ceramic clutches, like the one i have, are known for shuttering when engaging 1st (unless u slip it perfectly at like ~1750rpms) but otherwise I love it.

 

[GSquared]

you'll definitely need a new clutch at anything over 250 ft. lbs of torque, which any forced induction kit will do. 5 lbs. of boost on our kit would slip the clutch mid dyno pull. it wasn't even like it would only slip between shifts, it just would instantly let go during the middle of a dyno pull. i guess some guys are now doing the lightened flywheels since flashpro allows you to turn off the misfire detection, which is what was giving the lightened flywheels a problem. it still will have to be an 8th gen style flywheel since there are no 9th flywheels and clutches available.

Thanks, yeah that's what I had read somewhere I just wanted to verify. Is there a downside to using these 8th clutches or is it similar to just using an RBC from the 8th (no problems really)?

Also with the flywheels, given the choice is it an obvious decision to get the lightweight one if you have a FlashPro? I tried reading about the differences but didn't come up with much besides people saying a reduction in total car weight.

I'm going KW the second it comes out and I already have the CC Stg4 Clutch....i wouldn't call it "smooth" though. Ceramic clutches, like the one i have, are known for shuttering when engaging 1st (unless u slip it perfectly at like ~1750rpms) but otherwise I love it.

Hmm...this is my first manual transmission car, but won't be my first turbo. I'm really used to how the stock clutch is with getting into first. Judging by what you said it's a heck of a lot harder to get right and easier to stall?

Have you heard anything about CM vs CC? Also is there a specific reason why stage 4 is the most recommended one? Is it the power it holds? Sorry I don't know much about clutches/flywheels at all.


[Sorry about all the questions, I want to do this once, and do it right.]

 

[Michael Kelley]

Thanks, yeah that's what I had read somewhere I just wanted to verify. Is there a downside to using these 8th clutches or is it similar to just using an RBC from the 8th (no problems really)?

Also with the flywheels, given the choice is it an obvious decision to get the lightweight one if you have a FlashPro? I tried reading about the differences but didn't come up with much besides people saying a reduction in total car weight.





Hmm...this is my first manual transmission car, but won't be my first turbo. I'm really used to how the stock clutch is with getting into first. Judging by what you said it's a heck of a lot harder to get right and easier to stall?

Have you heard anything about CM vs CC? Also is there a specific reason why stage 4 is the most recommended one? Is it the power it holds? Sorry I don't know much about clutches/flywheels at all.


[Sorry about all the questions, I want to do this once, and do it right.]

The pedal is stiff, but its not hard to drive. Haven't stalled it yet. Keep in mind these are 8thgen clutches. The 8thgen didn't make as much torque as ours can meaning youll need a higher Stg clutch for your application. CM makes the FX350 which I have heard great things about. Organic/Kevlar so i dont THINK the engagment is as rough as mine, but I don't know for sure.

 

[GSquared]

The pedal is stiff, but its not hard to drive. Haven't stalled it yet. Keep in mind these are 8thgen clutches. The 8thgen didn't make as much torque as ours can meaning youll need a higher Stg clutch for your application. CM makes the FX350 which I have heard great things about. Organic/Kevlar so i dont THINK the engagment is as rough as mine, but I don't know for sure.

That's the exact one I was looking at actually. (see link in first post) I think I'll try that one out when I do it if you have also heard good things (I did as well). Just have to decide on a flywheel.[..and a turbo kit].

 

[Michael Kelley]

That's the exact one I was looking at actually. (see link in first post) I think I'll try that one out when I do it if you have also heard good things (I did as well). Just have to decide on a flywheel.[..and a turbo kit].

I'm using the 8thgen OEM Flywheel but yeah....whichever u wanna use...Good Luck! Look forward to seeing your Turbo build...I would order a turbo kit right now but i dont wanna **** with tapping oil lines so the rotrex kit it is for meeee....whenever the eff they bring it out.

 

[GSquared]

I'm using the 8thgen OEM Flywheel but yeah....whichever u wanna use...Good Luck! Look forward to seeing your Turbo build...I would order a turbo kit right now but i dont wanna **** with tapping oil lines so the rotrex kit it is for meeee....whenever the eff they bring it out.

Thanks! Yeah, I thought about getting a supercharger and was dead set on it at first but I was getting an aftercooler, ported, etc etc and by that time it was the price of a turbo so why not do what I wanted to do to begin with?

Also release is "June 2013" [hopefully]

 

[Michael Kelley]

Thanks! Yeah, I thought about getting a supercharger and was dead set on it at first but I was getting an aftercooler, ported, etc etc and by that time it was the price of a turbo so why not do what I wanted to do to begin with?

Also release is "June 2013" [hopefully]

Keyword there was 'hopefully'.......

 

[silver04v]

This is kinda old, but I figured Id give my .02
I have a CM stage 4 6 puck and fidanza fw in my turbo sentra.
Its ok for DD but engaging 1st from a stop is definitely not smooth. It does chatter unless you slip it just so. Kind of gets annoying to daily like that.
For a daily I would get a disc clutch for sure. My buddy had the stage 3 CM and loved it.

 

[GSquared]

I ended up with the CM FX350. I'm loving it, it seemed like it would be a pain when I first got it back with it on, but it's actually a really easy clutch. You can engage 1st from a stop smoothly without chatter if you get it right, working on perfecting that still lol.

 

[Michael Kelley]

I ended up with the CM FX350. I'm loving it, it seemed like it would be a pain when I first got it back with it on, but it's actually a really easy clutch. You can engage 1st from a stop smoothly without chatter if you get it right, working on perfecting that still lol.

That's pretty much exactly how the CC Stg4 Clutch is :-p

 

[None2Slow]

When you get a lightened flywheel, its going to be harder to engage smoothly. This is simple physics. The heavier the FW, the more momentum it has. A lighter FW requires more revs to keep it from slowing down when engaging the clutch. A heavier FW resists this. I prefer a heavier FW for a DD as it makes it easier to engage smoothly. If it was a track car, or seen a lot of track/ drag use, then maybe I would go lighter. This is all personal preference. Also, a turbo car is way different than a S/C car. With a S/C, you have a lot more torque a lot sooner and it builds, where a turbo car revs up, then BAMM, torque and HP come on. Obviously this all depends on what turbo or s/c you go with and what boost levels.