Suspension Question(s)

[toner300]

Hey all, first off I apologize for the noob question, suspension isn't really my forte. With that being said, I actually have a few questions suspension related if anyone can help. I have never touched the suspension on my old cars, so I know very little.

Basically my big question is, do I need to upgrade my 2013's suspension? I would like to lower the ride height (maybe 1" or 1.5") nothing drastic, and I wouldn't mind the performance upgrade. But from what I've been researching, it just seems like there's a lot of hassle to upgrading the suspension. From unwanted noise to adjusting and purchasing camber kits to purchasing even more products in combination. I'm the kind of person to install and not have to worry about it again down the road. This is a daily driver for me, and I'll never visit the track. The only reason I'm considering getting coilovers and sway bars is because I am going to purchase a CTe supercharger in the future. But is it really necessary if it's just a daily driver? And am I over exaggerating the downsides or difficulties of aftermarket suspension?

Any advise you guys could give would be greatly appreciated!

 

[ADExternal]

First thing I want to praise you want to do it right the first time and asking the right questions. So my first question, is there a budget? Currently there are couple DIYs out there to work on the suspension. It can be easy if you know exactly what you want (which you stated above). I would recommend Megan for being cheapest and BC Racing Coils for being reputable and comfort (bias since that's what I have for last 2 years). Dropping 1.5" will not show a significant tire wear on your oem wheel setup so camber arms are not necessary but if you're thinking about supercharging, you'll have to figure the dynamics and want that adjustable rest camber to change the over or under steer.

 

[Monk]

As a person that sees no reason to lower our cars for daily drivers, especially if they aren't going to lower it enough to close the gap. Why bother. Mostly I like having enough room under the car to drive over as much stuff as we come across on or off road.
On the other hand I see a lot of "good" in upgrading our suspensions for the better handling/ride that comes with it, and I would start with a rear sway bar(I did..."Progress"). My next move is to get shocks and springs that don't change the height, but preform.

JMHO...... I don't think you'll find to many ppl that will agree with me, but since you asked, I thought you might like to know there are "some" of us(me) that aren't into the lowering of our cars.

 

[toner300]

Thank you both for the recommendations! I didn't even consider under/oversteer correction to be a factor when supercharging, definitely need to look more into that. And I've seen good things about BC Racing. Currently price is not a factor, and if I do go all out on the suspension, I want something that isn't going to make me regret purchasing just because it was cheaper. And Monk I'm glad you commented, because I somewhat share your feelings on lowering. I'm definitely considering just going with performance options and forgetting the ride height. Glad to see I'm not entirely alone with that opinion as well.

 

[Nix]

Hey toner, let me see if I can help answer some of your questions.....

Definitely not noob to ask first rather than buy the wrong thing and be sorry later.

Basically my big question is, do I need to upgrade my 2013's suspension?

In a word. No.

Do you want to is a better question and do you want more performance out of your car?

If so, then yes, you should upgrade a couple things. The stock suspension is pretty decent on the Si. It's definitely competent and designed well enough for guys to go out and do quite well at auto-x and track events. There are a few shortcomings of the car, such as massive under steer, but those are inherent in any FWD chassis.

I would like to lower the ride height (maybe 1" or 1.5") nothing drastic, and I wouldn't mind the performance upgrade. But from what I've been researching, it just seems like there's a lot of hassle to upgrading the suspension.

A very nice drop for a car that is mostly a DD but you want some better handling and a little better aesthetics. Several ways to go about it. It's not really a hassle once you decide what you really want out of it. Super performance? Ease of install? The best quality you can get?

In order of easiest to most work:

HFP Suspension: You can always get the HFP suspension kit. Its a mild drop with stiffer springs and dampers. A pretty good compromise and OEM parts are always reliable. My wifes car has the HFP suspension and it is darn comfortable but still handles much better than the stock setup. We upgraded hers once the stock stuff was totally worn out. Her car is an 09' so lots of miles on it already. The HFP kit is a mild upgrade in terms of reduction in ride comfort and improvement in handling. You should have no issues with noise, fitment, or reliability as its made for your car by Honda. (I actually really like driving her car.)


Coilovers: Usually coilovers are an all in one package. Depending on which ones you go with you get not only adjustable ride height, adjustable struts, stiffness, sometimes rebound, and some of the better options include pillow ball mounts and camber plates on the front struts. Basically, adjustable camber without having to buy more parts. Well, for the fronts anyway but a set of camber bolts is only $30-ish and you will need to get a professional alignment when you are done anyway. This option usually has the most noise though. If you lower significantly you will probably want to pick up a set of rear camber arms. As you lower the car the rear suspension naturally gains negative camber. Again this is a point of personal preference in deciding if you want/need camber arms. If you are fine running lots of camber then don't even worry about it. Again, set your suspension up and get an alignment. If you are happy with the numbers then you are done. If you don't like where it ended up then yes, you will need more parts.


Spring/Strut: If you are a set it and forget it person then you can always get a spring/strut combo. Pick a drop spring you like and get a Koni based setup. Their "yellow" line of dampers are awesome but do require some cutting and fabrication. They do have a simpler "orange" front strut but I have not seen them available for the 2012+ civic yet. If you are considering going this route, consult with redshift motorsports and @RedShiftChris . They have options to have all the fab work done for you with all new OEM Honda parts. It is more expensive, but you are getting brand new OEM fitment and one of the best performing setups out there. I am a bit biased as I am running this type of setup. So is @nat3d .

You can also get a custom Koni based "redshift" coilover setup as well. Lots of options.
http://redshiftmotorsports.com/RedShift2012CivicSuspPackages.htm


Some general recommendations:

Upgrade your rear swaybar. Hands down this will make the biggest improvements to your cars suspension. Progress makes a very nice 22mm and 24mm rear swaybar. Leave the front sway alone. Do not upgrade it if you want an improvement in handling. If anything find a smaller one or take it off completely. I recommend just leaving it alone. Hahaha, cheapest and easiest option. The rear sway upgrade is the best bang for the buck and is an improvement you can feel right away. The install is pretty easy and you can do it yourself in your driveway with some basic tools and a couple hours. There are at least 2 DIY guides on here to help you.


Get a set of front camber bolts if you do not get a coilover setup that has camber plates. These are cheap. Dialing in a little bit more negative camber up front will help you corner better. Again, balance this with your need for performance and tire wear. Get a good alignment and set the toe as close to 0 as possible. Yes camber eats tires but very gently, toe destroys tires.

Rear camber arms. A major point of contention. Do I need them, are they really necessary, cant I just run with the camber I have? Look, I say if you are lowering 1.5" or more, get them. Yes they are expensive for a good set. But heres the catch. If you lower your car lets say 1.5" and your rear camber comes out to just over -2. Do you need arms at that point? Honestly its up to you. Yea, itll wear your tires a little faster but how much faster? Hard to say. How do you drive? How are your roads? How much front camber are you running? Are you willing to get frequent tire rotations? I think most people should just buck up and get them. Dial out the camber and run somewhere around -1 degree. As you lower the civic, the rear suspension causes there to be more negative camber. The lower you go, the more there is. That's why people buy the arms. So you can adjust the camber back to where its "supposed" to be, or where you want it.


If you are seriously considering getting a S/C later on, a good suspension setup will only help you. A poor setup will not allow you to corner well nor be able to sufficiently put down the power that you are making with that supercharger. Wheel hop and spinning tires aren't doing you any good and are just wasting all that power you paid for. Let me know if this has been helpful and if you have any more questions, feel free to ask.

 

[nat3d]

as @Nix said im running yellows and h&r springs. i love them. im so happy with my setup and im sure everyones sick of seeing the pics that i post of it on every thread by this point lol so if you wanna see what that set up looks like take a look at the last couple pages on my build thread (link in sig). the ride is MUCH stiffer but it is adjustable with the konis and i run them damn near full stiff, why you may ask? because race car. but in all reality i love it and its my dd.

as far as camber goes i just have the inherent camber from the drop but i will be getting arms down the road.

 

[toner300]

@Nix Thank you so much for the amazing write up! Exactly what I was looking for and in great detail. I definitely have some more research to do deciding on which setup will be best for me, but you've definitely started me off in the right direction. I'm still pulling towards a nice set of coilovers, something I have a wide range of settings to choose from to customize it exactly how I want. Although the spring/strut option you mentioned sounds pretty nice too. Definitely will be getting the camber kit for both if the fronts aren't already adjustable. Might as well go all out than regret being cheap down the road. I've definitely learned a lot in a few days about suspension and you all have been a great help! Very glad to have subscribed to such a helpful community. Also @nat3d you're setup looks sick. I would definitely not run it as stiff as you, but gives me a good idea of what I'm going for! Whatever option I choose I'll be sure to post here to hopefully help someone else down the road in the same boat as I am.

One thing's for sure, this is definitely the most fun, customizable car I've ever owned. Can't wait to throw on a CTe Super in the future

 

[nat3d]

thanks man