Takeda Intake
- Thread starter bill silvis
- Start date
roddizzle12
Well-Known Member
- 162
- 18
DAMN I DON'T HAVE A FLASH PRO SOOO FROM MY UNDERSTANDING THE REASON YOU WOULD HAVE GAINS FROM THE PRL IS BECAUSE YOUR USING A FLASH PRO....HMMMMM ANY RECOMMENDATIONS WITHOUT USING A FLASH PRO?
- Staff
- #23
FlashPro or not, the only intake that has had proven gains is the PRL CAI. This is according to VitViper who has tuned hundreds of 9th gens. Anything else is equivalent or worse than stock regardless of using FlashPro. (caveat: not sure how Rick Spec'd compares and is worth noting that it is similar to the PRL SRI)
roddizzle12
Well-Known Member
- 162
- 18
thanks for the info squiggy im kinda new in the Honda world the last thing that I wanna do is buy an intake and it doesn't serve it purpose you know,,,,,, ive read about the takeda putting out up to 20hp dyno proven then some one told me about the skunk 2 I read about that and I saw that you would have to cut of the mass flow air sensor and add wires to it to make it longer, im all like what the hell to buy lol
- Staff
- #25
Never trust a manufacturers claim. Independent dyno tests are a better indication.
So then why even buy an intake? Doesn't make sense. I don't understand how one intake (being the PRL) is the only one that can improve the car. I know PRL is the top one, but I'm sure the takeda does something, I don't see how it could be worse. Idk I'm new to this stuff
- Staff
- #27
Sound and bling?
- Staff
- #30
It really depends on your goals. If you are staying NA or supercharging, get a PRL CAI. If you are eventually going the turbo route, a different intake is unnecessary. Otherwise, balance your wallet with sound and bling factor.
I know it sucks that intakes aren't doing much (if anything) for the 9th gen, but that just goes to show the quality of engineering put forth by Honda.
I prob will keep it the way it is. My mod goals are intake, exhaust, downpipe, rims,and coil overs. Just want it to sound nice and look nice, I prob won't get a supercharger or a turbo, and if I do I have to pay it off first lol. Haven't even made my first payment yet lmao
raormrod
Active Member
- 23
- 10
I jus installed takeda momentum. So worth it
MikeV37
Well-Known Member
I've been curious as to which Intake i want to get for my 14 SI
raormrod
Active Member
- 23
- 10
I bought flashpro tuned from vit viper last week. Haven't received it yet. I can't wait to see the results
Nix
Jötunn Moderator
People are finding the most gains on the exhaust side. If you have $300, don't buy an intake, buy a down pipe or exhaust system first. Also you will need Flashpro and a tune to get the most out of those parts. Basically unless you are getting the PRL intake, or similar, which most 3"+ intakes require a tune to run properly anyway, you should put your money elsewhere.
FB6Albert
Well-Known Member
- 13
- 2
Hey so how did the tune with the intake turn out??
K24Z7SiGuy
Member
- 5
- 1
About to order the same intake. I just don't understand why all of these dudes keep talking about FP. Will I absolutely need this in conjunction with the intake? Car has 600 miles and Im not being stupid with the warranty and remapping. I know Vtec in the 9th gens isn't like it used to be, but some say you can hear the "crossover" better. Did you find this to be true?! What is your view now that you have had it on the car for a while now? Thanks for your time!
- Staff
- #39
You only need FP/tune if you have a 3.5" intake. Anything other intake is just engine bling, to increase noise, or potentially rob you of power. If it is not a 3.5" intake, it will not make more power than the stock setup...even with a tune.
K24Z7SiGuy
Member
- 5
- 1
Thanks for the info. I did find a conversation with INJEN R&D. From my due - diligence, our ECU's will relearn emissions to set it back within what it feels is "correct" emissions therefore negating any gains. I have used injen products for 16 years and believe the validity of what they have to say. It would be very bold to say that the engineer from Injen is completely Full of crap and is misstating or lying about gains. Some of the other companies, maybe.
Here it is-
RR'12SiCp said:
Original post
All CAI people this is worth reading. I would appreciate responses from all of you as I really would like to purchase the Injen CAI, but again Hydralock is a concern. This is an email conversation I had with Paul Ho, Injen's Head of Research & Product Development... Me - I am very interested in your CAI for the 2012 Honda Civic Si. I know it is on sale currently on a few websites. But if you don't mind, I have a few questions for you? Me - 1. The advertised gains on this intake, are they average numbers or peak numbers?Mr. Paul Ho - The horsepower gains that we advertised are very consistent gains. All of our dyno runs are done on the same day back to back unlike some of our competition. We saw gains of 19-20 horsepower but will not advertise those since those were peak number but others will use peak numbers when advertising. Me - 2. How far down does the filter sit in the car? or how far from the ground does the filter sit on a stock 2012 Si. I am very worried about hydralock.Mr. Paul Ho - The filter sits about a foot off the ground and you would have to completely submerge the filter under water to cause hydrolock, Me - 3. Why should I go with your product as compared to the competition?Mr. Paul Ho - There are a lot of reasons why you should use our intake system. You should look at their dyno graph….they are done on different days, that’s a big no no! The ECU in the new Civic Si is very adaptive, it can reject any mods that are not engineered right and correct the modification out and return it back to stock. We monitor the ECU and log all the long term and short term fuel corrections to make sure we are within the correction window so the ECU doesn’t take over and make corrections…ask the competition if they do that? Our air fuel ratio is tuned correctly and slightly leaner than stock, as it should be. The competitions air fuel ratios are all over the place, at wide open throttle the air fuel ratio is richer than stock , which is another no no. We have 4 U.S. patents on our intake tuning process, one at which everyone copies. We have a tuning process called “Air Fusion” that lets us to keep fuel trims in check while maintaining high horsepower gains without the ECU correcting itself. There is more to tuning an intake system than just throwing pipes together and sticking a filter at the end of it. Me - 4. Will a throttle body spacer interfere with installation of this intake?Mr. Paul Ho - Throttle body spacers are a waste of money. The spacer only works on an engine with a poorly designed intake manifold. It increases plenum volume, there for increasing the pumping efficiency of the engine, which equals power but on the Civis Si the intake manifold is engineered extremely well and doesn’t need a throttle body spacer. Me - 5. Is corsportusa.com & procivic.com authorized dealers of yours? Me - Thank you for your time! - - - - - - - - - - 2nd email... Paul Ho was extremely quick at responding to my questions. Great customer service if you ask me! Me - Mr. Ho, Thank you for such a quick response. Customer service like thus is a big deal for me and I'm sure others really appreciate it too. A few more question. I apologize for not asking you this the first time. Me - 1. Your hydrashield, should I purchase it for added protection?Mr. Paul Ho - I highly recommend it if you live in an area that gets lots of rain…other than that it's not needed. Me - 2. Does the hydrashield restrict the intake gains at all?Mr. Paul Ho - We have seen a loss of 1-2 hp and also gains of 1-2 hp when we tested the Hydroshield on some vehicles. Unfortunately I didn’t test a Hydroshield on the Civic Si. Me - 3. The corsportusa.com & procivic.com answer did not come through correctly. Are they authorized dealers of yours.Mr. Paul Ho - No, they are not a direct distributor but they could be buying from one of our authorized distributor which technically make them a Injen distributor. I recommend purchasing from www.impactracingzone.com if you have any problems purchasing from any of the other two retailer. Me - 4. Are you offering any discounts for buyers?Mr. Paul Ho - We don’t deal with the general public so we don’t give discounts out, but a lot of our distributors do promotion and if you search around, you’ll find a really good deal. Me - Again I really appreciate your CS & response, - - - - - - - - - - 3rd email... Me - Excellent, thank you so much. Sorry for the big concern on hydralock. I have read a lot of scary stories on the Internet about people locking up their engines in a hard rain storm, barely 6" of water, a small amount of water running across the road, etc... I'm still a little nervous on hydralock, a $300 investment for a CAI is not worth replacing an engine at $3,000-$4,000, because of hydralock! Sway me the other direction, so I want to purchase from your company. I have read many great reviews on your products. Hydralock was making me consider an SRI, but I know you do not have one yet. What are the biggest downfalls of SRI's? Less HP, heat soak, higher engine noise (unless that is what you are seeking).Mr. Paul Ho - I honestly wouldn't worry about it unless you plan on going in water that is deeper than 12”. I’m not going to deny the fact that it could happen but there are a lot of factors that lead to hydrolocking. Some intakes place the filter extremely low to the ground and in a vehicle that has been lowered, it places that filter even lower. In the Civic Si we placed the filter as high as we could to reduce the risk of hydrolocking. Honestly just use common sense when driving through deep puddles and you will be just fine. As far as the SRI VS CAI debate, I would be more concerned about designing an intake that works with these new Civic Si. We spent a total of 4 weeks designing different intake configurations and the new Civic Si is soooo adaptive that it corrected everything it didn’t like and tuned it back to stock. We spent two weeks designing a short ram and it didn’t like any configuration with a short tube length and it re-adjusted the fuel trims back to stock. I would be very skeptical on any company that says their intake system works in SRI configuration. I honestly would just use your stock intake system if you are going to waste your money on a SRI that probably doesn’t work or until someone tests all of these intakes and show the proven results. My final response - Thanks Paul! Take care and enjoy your week.
Paul emailed me with some additional information.... Mr. Paul Ho - I forgot to mention …another thing to consider is what job your OE intake actually performs. Your stock intake system is there to filter out dust & contaminants to protect your engine and provide it with clean air. The manufacture doesn’t concentrate on airflow as much as it does engine protection. With that said, the OE filters are normally highly restrictive, but also filter out 99%+ of airborne contaminates. The common downfall when changing over to an aftermarket intake is the loss of engine protection at the expense of airflow. Common 4-layer cotton gauze “performance” air filters flow great, but their efficiency levels are far below 99%+. We here at Injen don’t agree with sacrificing engine protecting to gain airflow. It doesn’t make sense and we would never endorse such a product. We’ve worked long hours in the lab to develop an air filter that will match, if not beat in some instances the airflow rate of a cotton gauze filter while maintaining that 99%+ efficiency rating to ensure engine protection with our Injen Dry Nanofiber filter media. Thanks Paul Ho Head of Research & Product Development"
I mean no disrespect but Im a numbers and facts kind of guy. If you have any hard research or dyno info that disproves this, I welcome this with open arms and would like to see data that supports it. Again, I appreciate your time in answering my post. I hope this info helps someone else, like myself, who is dropping back into the word of Honda and was as confused as I was from these threads because of a lack of scientific/hard evidence to back up member's claims. Alot of folks on here seem to "know everything" without being able to support their claims. Too many reputations are on the line for every manufacturer to have a "no gain conspiracy" going on here. =D Can you provide actual dyno results, from multiple sources, that show NO gains with all other intakes to help formulate the best opinion/decision possible?
If somebody has an injen and had a negative or no gain dyno, please reach out to me. I have yet to see one with my own eyes.
Respectfully,
SiGuy
Here it is-
RR'12SiCp said:
Original post
All CAI people this is worth reading. I would appreciate responses from all of you as I really would like to purchase the Injen CAI, but again Hydralock is a concern. This is an email conversation I had with Paul Ho, Injen's Head of Research & Product Development... Me - I am very interested in your CAI for the 2012 Honda Civic Si. I know it is on sale currently on a few websites. But if you don't mind, I have a few questions for you? Me - 1. The advertised gains on this intake, are they average numbers or peak numbers?Mr. Paul Ho - The horsepower gains that we advertised are very consistent gains. All of our dyno runs are done on the same day back to back unlike some of our competition. We saw gains of 19-20 horsepower but will not advertise those since those were peak number but others will use peak numbers when advertising. Me - 2. How far down does the filter sit in the car? or how far from the ground does the filter sit on a stock 2012 Si. I am very worried about hydralock.Mr. Paul Ho - The filter sits about a foot off the ground and you would have to completely submerge the filter under water to cause hydrolock, Me - 3. Why should I go with your product as compared to the competition?Mr. Paul Ho - There are a lot of reasons why you should use our intake system. You should look at their dyno graph….they are done on different days, that’s a big no no! The ECU in the new Civic Si is very adaptive, it can reject any mods that are not engineered right and correct the modification out and return it back to stock. We monitor the ECU and log all the long term and short term fuel corrections to make sure we are within the correction window so the ECU doesn’t take over and make corrections…ask the competition if they do that? Our air fuel ratio is tuned correctly and slightly leaner than stock, as it should be. The competitions air fuel ratios are all over the place, at wide open throttle the air fuel ratio is richer than stock , which is another no no. We have 4 U.S. patents on our intake tuning process, one at which everyone copies. We have a tuning process called “Air Fusion” that lets us to keep fuel trims in check while maintaining high horsepower gains without the ECU correcting itself. There is more to tuning an intake system than just throwing pipes together and sticking a filter at the end of it. Me - 4. Will a throttle body spacer interfere with installation of this intake?Mr. Paul Ho - Throttle body spacers are a waste of money. The spacer only works on an engine with a poorly designed intake manifold. It increases plenum volume, there for increasing the pumping efficiency of the engine, which equals power but on the Civis Si the intake manifold is engineered extremely well and doesn’t need a throttle body spacer. Me - 5. Is corsportusa.com & procivic.com authorized dealers of yours? Me - Thank you for your time! - - - - - - - - - - 2nd email... Paul Ho was extremely quick at responding to my questions. Great customer service if you ask me! Me - Mr. Ho, Thank you for such a quick response. Customer service like thus is a big deal for me and I'm sure others really appreciate it too. A few more question. I apologize for not asking you this the first time. Me - 1. Your hydrashield, should I purchase it for added protection?Mr. Paul Ho - I highly recommend it if you live in an area that gets lots of rain…other than that it's not needed. Me - 2. Does the hydrashield restrict the intake gains at all?Mr. Paul Ho - We have seen a loss of 1-2 hp and also gains of 1-2 hp when we tested the Hydroshield on some vehicles. Unfortunately I didn’t test a Hydroshield on the Civic Si. Me - 3. The corsportusa.com & procivic.com answer did not come through correctly. Are they authorized dealers of yours.Mr. Paul Ho - No, they are not a direct distributor but they could be buying from one of our authorized distributor which technically make them a Injen distributor. I recommend purchasing from www.impactracingzone.com if you have any problems purchasing from any of the other two retailer. Me - 4. Are you offering any discounts for buyers?Mr. Paul Ho - We don’t deal with the general public so we don’t give discounts out, but a lot of our distributors do promotion and if you search around, you’ll find a really good deal. Me - Again I really appreciate your CS & response, - - - - - - - - - - 3rd email... Me - Excellent, thank you so much. Sorry for the big concern on hydralock. I have read a lot of scary stories on the Internet about people locking up their engines in a hard rain storm, barely 6" of water, a small amount of water running across the road, etc... I'm still a little nervous on hydralock, a $300 investment for a CAI is not worth replacing an engine at $3,000-$4,000, because of hydralock! Sway me the other direction, so I want to purchase from your company. I have read many great reviews on your products. Hydralock was making me consider an SRI, but I know you do not have one yet. What are the biggest downfalls of SRI's? Less HP, heat soak, higher engine noise (unless that is what you are seeking).Mr. Paul Ho - I honestly wouldn't worry about it unless you plan on going in water that is deeper than 12”. I’m not going to deny the fact that it could happen but there are a lot of factors that lead to hydrolocking. Some intakes place the filter extremely low to the ground and in a vehicle that has been lowered, it places that filter even lower. In the Civic Si we placed the filter as high as we could to reduce the risk of hydrolocking. Honestly just use common sense when driving through deep puddles and you will be just fine. As far as the SRI VS CAI debate, I would be more concerned about designing an intake that works with these new Civic Si. We spent a total of 4 weeks designing different intake configurations and the new Civic Si is soooo adaptive that it corrected everything it didn’t like and tuned it back to stock. We spent two weeks designing a short ram and it didn’t like any configuration with a short tube length and it re-adjusted the fuel trims back to stock. I would be very skeptical on any company that says their intake system works in SRI configuration. I honestly would just use your stock intake system if you are going to waste your money on a SRI that probably doesn’t work or until someone tests all of these intakes and show the proven results. My final response - Thanks Paul! Take care and enjoy your week.
Paul emailed me with some additional information.... Mr. Paul Ho - I forgot to mention …another thing to consider is what job your OE intake actually performs. Your stock intake system is there to filter out dust & contaminants to protect your engine and provide it with clean air. The manufacture doesn’t concentrate on airflow as much as it does engine protection. With that said, the OE filters are normally highly restrictive, but also filter out 99%+ of airborne contaminates. The common downfall when changing over to an aftermarket intake is the loss of engine protection at the expense of airflow. Common 4-layer cotton gauze “performance” air filters flow great, but their efficiency levels are far below 99%+. We here at Injen don’t agree with sacrificing engine protecting to gain airflow. It doesn’t make sense and we would never endorse such a product. We’ve worked long hours in the lab to develop an air filter that will match, if not beat in some instances the airflow rate of a cotton gauze filter while maintaining that 99%+ efficiency rating to ensure engine protection with our Injen Dry Nanofiber filter media. Thanks Paul Ho Head of Research & Product Development"
I mean no disrespect but Im a numbers and facts kind of guy. If you have any hard research or dyno info that disproves this, I welcome this with open arms and would like to see data that supports it. Again, I appreciate your time in answering my post. I hope this info helps someone else, like myself, who is dropping back into the word of Honda and was as confused as I was from these threads because of a lack of scientific/hard evidence to back up member's claims. Alot of folks on here seem to "know everything" without being able to support their claims. Too many reputations are on the line for every manufacturer to have a "no gain conspiracy" going on here. =D Can you provide actual dyno results, from multiple sources, that show NO gains with all other intakes to help formulate the best opinion/decision possible?
If somebody has an injen and had a negative or no gain dyno, please reach out to me. I have yet to see one with my own eyes.
Respectfully,
SiGuy