Hondata Releases 2012 Honda Civic Si ECU Reflash!!

the only thing I saw in like 5+ yrs on 8th was when a few members downshifted into the wrong gear and over-revved their engines. User error... and that had nothing to do with hondata's reflash.
 
Just got my ECU back in the car reflash is a must.
Throttle response is so much better. Minimum rev hang.!
Just gota get used to the new rev limiter. I still wanna shift early.!
Just waiting on the CAI & catback from full race.
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Any idea how this ecu affects mpg?
Thinking about buying an SI this fall, and 20 extra ponies would bring the power to weight ratio really close to the Mazda Speed 3.
 
googled "hondata gas mileage" - seems most claim it stayed the same, while others said they had slightly better gas mileage after installing the hondata reflash.
 
MikeP said:
Any idea how this ecu affects mpg?
Thinking about buying an SI this fall, and 20 extra ponies would bring the power to weight ratio really close to the Mazda Speed 3.
Click to expand...

I think Hondata changed the HP gains to 10-15 ,after more research. I don't think I have ever had my Imid on MPG. I keep mine on media or power meter. Not too concerned about that. But I would think if you did the reflash and drove the car like you're worried about the MPG you might notice some gains. But then you would not get to see the vtec lights or hear the cam change. Maybe get a ex save some upfront money if you looking for good MPG :-/ . I know my ex gets over 40 MPG. :confused:

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webby,
I should have googled (duh), but thanks! :)
Slightly better mpg would make it too good a deal to pass up.


scottwhi1,
+10hp is probably more reasonable. +15hp would still be awesome.
 
Based soley off of my IMID Mpg, I think it actually helped about 2mpg. I have the exact driving habits as before, gunning it ocassionaly. Living in Vtec land every now and then. I have about a 60-40 mix of highway and city driving. I was consistently at 26-27mpg, now I am at 29mpg. I'm sure I would still get 32mpg if i did another road trip.
 
thanks for posting your results so far
 
I thought so too, I really wasnt expecting that. I never did a full tank comparison, so this is soley based off of my drivng habits and routes have been the same(havent moved and work is the same drive) using the IMID. Might hack of the snorkel and smooth out the airbox on intake with my buddy tomorrow. So I'm sure this work good with the Hondata. I'll to take some pics and post on the DIY page. But really happy with the reflash so far, the throttle response is excellent and defintely no rev hang. Its was worth it, IMO.
 
Did you guys notice on Hondata's web site they changed the dyno graph from when it was first released?

Looks like 199.9hp / 157.7lbft..

^^Thats a far cry from what they were originally advertising!
 
I see that! *Shakes fist*
I'm mad that I put that 220hp sticker on my back window. ;-)
 
looks like they're using the same dyno, but they've marked the points at where the largest hp/tq GAINS are.... not peak hp/tq #'s...

look at the graph... the points are not the peaks.

civic_si_2012_stock_vs_reflash_001.gif
 
Well, heres some revealing info in Hondata's decieving numbers.... http://hondata.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13862 That post pretty much covers how Hondata published false numbers and got caught in a lie. To sum up the post (very long) a 2012 civic SI owner purchased the reflash and took it to a Dyno to see the results. Well, the numbers advertized by Hondata were not even close, gains of about 2 hp. As this thread was going on the si owner brought up the problem to Hondata, it took him a very long time to get a response. During the time this was going on, Hondata mysteriously changed the information on their website. To wrap this story up, they practiced false advertisement, and then tried to cover it up. The Si owner seems like a very nice guy, but if it were someone else I feel those are grounds for a lawsuit. The purpose of this post is not to bash hondata but to make everyone aware. I am very upset in the way hondata counducted their business and I will never purchase anything from them. All Im trying to point out is that sometimes you cant believe everything you see. This situation is like waiting for sex until marriage, her telling you shes a virgin........then finding out she was a striper in college.
 
looks to be a few issues.

1 - hondata used a car with ~50 miles on the odometer, then did the next dyno at ~2500 miles. Most would agree that your engine is not 100% at 50 miles on the odometer.

from their site -
hondata said:
The stock dyno pulls were done on the Civic when it had less than 50 miles and was not fully run in. The ECU tuning was done at a later time when the engine was making more power. We retested the reflash against the stock ECU at 2500 miles and have adjusted the power figures to more accurately reflect the power gains.
Click to expand...
They're still saying :
  • 10-15 top end HP gain depending on the dyno and modifications
  • 5-12 ft lb top end torque
The graph still shows areas that have the largest gains on the chart. They aren't advertising the peak hp/tq figures on the dyno. Look where the crosshairs are on the 2 different dyno graphs.

1st dyno published -
civic_si_2012_stock_vs_reflash.sized.gif

2nd dyno published
civic_si_2012_stock_vs_reflash_002.sized.gif


how does the reflash make power?
hondata said:
The additional power from the reflash is generated by modifying the fuel, ignition and cam angles. There are 10 tuning air pressure positions from sea level to vacuum. Hondata tunes at sea level.
As you rise in altitude, the air pressure reduces. This does not affect the fuel and cam angle changes, but it does affect the ignition changes . At around 8000 feet altitude there is no difference between the ignition timing for a stock and a reflashed ECU. At around 3700 feet, the ignition changes are a around half that of sea level.

Altitude changes do not affect the improvement Hondata has made to rev hang.
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so if you lived at 8000ft elevation and bought the reflash, you would see essentially zero gains, but your rev hang would be gone.

The person who posted to Hondata is in somewhat of a special circumstance with altitudes of 4000+ foot base elevations.

when it's all said and done, his response to the situation:
Okay, I just got off the phone with a gentleman from Hondata. He is the one who created the ReFlash and also did the testing last week. So I was talking to "the man".

He was very polite and friendly. He talked to me about the testing and results. He said they were willing to do whatever to make me happy. But I'm not one to try and use something against someone to get something. Truth is and has been that I am happy, In all my posts you can see that I love how my car handles, drives and feels now. We talked about a few things, altitude, numbers and I'm satisfied.

I asked about Flash Pro and it's in the works. He said a rebate would be offered to ReFlash customers who buy the Flash Pro once it's out.

The guy I spoke too doesn't have accesses to the forums so the support team is who posted the results. He just apologized and was a pleasure to speak too. Honest mistake. He said I raised a lot of attention and it was important to them to do some testing provide the right results.

To anyone who is hesitant about the ReFlash, Ask any member on here who has it, It's more than worth it! It drives like a different beast!
Click to expand...



I'm not standing up for them, as I have no reason to. I'm just trying to point out the cliffs of important info.
 
I myself webby am not trying to bash them, and to comment on the elevation issue....I do not remember seeing that on the original advertisement on their website. As far as using a vehicle with only 50 miles....... it is very hard for me to comprehend that hondata would not take that into consideration when developing and testing for this produt. The Si owner we are refering to is indeed a very nice person and still supports hondata. I just want to make sure people know this kind of stuff when making a decision to purchase this product. I believe in the integrity of any business....I am the consumer, so please don't lie to me because I may not know how to tell the difference. Im married with three kids, so modding takes a little more of the decision making prcocess, because lets be honest, 300 dollars is not cheap. If I did pay that, I would really expect what they are claiming. The reflash on the discussed post was purchased during the time the false numbers were being advertised, at the very least this Si owner and all the others should have got a refund, point blank! the issue on elevation was not posted and higher numbers were posted. Don't get me wrong, if I hated the rev hang (still dont know what it is) I would purchase this for just that reason. But the consumer has to know and not be decieved. thanks webby for not acting defensively on this subject, as I seen other sites do when something like this is brought up.
 
rev hang is referred to the tachometer staying up in the air after you've taken your foot off the gas. It's like the needle is floating, meanwhile you've already taken your foot off the gas.

example of that - watch his foot get off the gas, and the RPM gauge is still going up, or hanging there even with the clutch in (gas pedal not pressed in).

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woVzeRl8f7E


As for lying - I don't really think they were intentionally trying to mislead buyers. Hondata has been around for quite a while, and most users praise their products to the millionth degree. You are right though, they could have easily waited for a car with more mileage if they figured the values were going to change a lot during break in. Or, they didn't realize the car had put that many miles on it between dyno runs? I have no idea what time frame was between dyno runs.

As for giving him a refund, I'm sure they would have. He told them he was happy with the way it drove over the stock ecu. If you contacted them with this issue, and wanted the refund, they most likely would have no issue with that. They aren't making a living trying to sell a $300 reflash to people who will be unhappy with the product. I would wager a large number of reflash owners will even upgrade to a flash pro unit when it's available from hondata. They know this, and want to keep their customer base happy.

You should be informed when making a decision on mods. That's what forums are for, and it's great to see people test products. As for being defensive, I have no reason to be. If something isn't right, people should bring it to light. It's not fair for people to be taken advantage of.

Hondata has an account on here as well. You can send them a message if you have questions/concerns over a product. I'm pretty sure they are not actively scanning threads, but they have responded to me when I had specific questions.
http://9thcivic.com/forum/members/hondata.52900/
 
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