2013 Honda Civic Redesign Info - Updates Inside

The dealer with 4 si coupes offered to sell a 2012 si for 20500 before tax, title, and dealer fees (6.5% tax here, 150 dmv fees, and I imagine $500 for dealer fees). What would you do? I like the Si and, if I can get my payments for what I pay less, I'd be happy. But, if I hold out my current lease, I'd be happier with a '13
 
it's obviously a good price... I think you're the only one who can answer if you'll be happy with the purchase though. decisions decisions....
 
Bulkybear said:
For me there's not enough change on the 2013 to skip a 20500 price on a 12
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Agreed, I though over the decision to get the better deal on the 2012 SI sedan vs waiting for the 2013. I ended up 19800 before dealer fees and taxes on a showroom SOP SI sedan w/ 8 miles. Plus took advantage of the 0.9 Honda financing for the 12s. Its a tough decision so I understand.
 
promar93 said:
Agreed, I though over the decision to get the better deal on the 2012 SI sedan vs waiting for the 2013. I ended up 19800 before dealer fees and taxes on a showroom SOP SI sedan w/ 8 miles. Plus took advantage of the 0.9 Honda financing for the 12s. Its a tough decision so I understand.
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That's not even a tough deal for you. I would have taken that without a second thought.
Welcome to the forum.
 
WhiteFG4 said:
My only gripe about this is numbers don't lie. If a lot of people were "not impressed" with the 2012 I don't think it would of outsold almost every 8thgen year. Something like 50% better sales than 2011, jus sayin.

And the critics they listened to aren't exactly the ones buying Hondas. But I respect your opinion and your right to voice it. Viva la 'merica!!
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I would agree with you, but if we dig a little deeper, I'd be curious to see what the average selling price for the 2012 Civics were compared to the 2006 (after all, that would be the best comparison, new model year versus new model year).

I don't have the numbers in front of me as to whether the 2012 sold more volume wise than they did in 2006, but I can tell you I bet my bottom dollar the 2012 Civic's sold cheaper than the 2006 did (money scaled to account for inflation of course). Additionally, the insane financing and money on the hood Honda started doing to get rid of the huge surplus of 2012 models they had in November and beyond certainly helped sales - but profitability wise, that's another story.

The dealerships around here were pretty much knocking $5,000 off Civic's for 2012 and BEGGING people to buy them as they started getting 2013s - and I watched more than a few prospective customers reject the 2012 in favor of the 2013. One actually said "This one looks cheaper than a rental car. Why is this one (referring to the 2013) so much nicer?"

To 90% of consumers, the Civic is a glorified Corolla. They aren't going to notice the nuances we see as 'flaws' for the 2012 Civic, and if they do they don't really care. They're buying it because its a Civic. Honda got lucky - this car, without the 2013 updates, would not have continued to sell well year over year, I don't think. It ws barely competitive when it came out in terms of build quality and material quality. So while the Civic did sell very well (better than anyone could've expected it to in spite of the negative reviews, rocky launch due to the tsunami, early recalls, and other debacles.

Frankly, I'm more surprised more of us on here aren't pissy with Honda for saying "Yeah, we knew the 2012 missed the mark before it even went on sale, and began the process to improve it." and "We thought consumers would adopt a more conservative perspective on driving due to the economic downturn." What? Who ever though "pay more, get less" was a smart business model, especially when your competition is getting exponentially better? Whoever made these decisions should be **** canned. I think Honda made a really lousy move, and it's irrevocably tarnished their already spotty reputation with me. Consumers deserve the best - which is why we buy Hondas. We did not get the best for 2012 even though it's a decent car. When you're Honda, selling "good" isn't enough - consumers expect you to sell great. And the 2013 is what the 2012 should've been - and Honda knows it.

That sound was the sound of 200,000 some consumers getting a mediocre product, and Honda knew it. That doesn't sit well with me. I still think my car is nice, but it's a far cry from the refinement my 2006 Si had, and after sitting in and driving a 2013, I can't help but feel my interior looks like a Hertz special. Not a great feeling.
 
I can't be upset with Honda because they did not force me nor anyone else to buy their car. If you own a 2012 (not you personally, but in general) and you didn't love it when you test drove it/shopped for it, then you are being a "blind" consumer. I know we couldn't have forseen the problems, nor the early refresh, but to actually buy something that expensive and to not love it the following year because a newer version came it is silly to me. I owned a 99 civic before this, so I understand from an 8thgen owners to 9thgen owners perspective it might not have been improved enough, but I don't feel they stepped backwards. The 8thgen to the 7thgen was a huge leap, almost impossible to make again. Who knows maybe the 10thgen will e waaaaay better than the 9th. But all I'm saying is if you liked it enough to buy it then, how can you have so much resentment now that the newer refresh is out. Now my opinion is skewed because I have an si, so I don't know exactly how crappy the other models were. But as a car modifier, if I don't love it the way it came I'll change it to fit my needs. Not everyone feels this way. I'm not arguing the refresh isn't better, it has cons and positives to it, but overall I was happy when I bought my car, and I'm still happy. I think we are seeing how Honda of America is operating differently than Honda of Japan.
 
I feel the same way to a certain degree. When I was shopping around for my Civic Hybrid I did ask the dealer about 2013 models coming out. Salesperson couldn't really say anything other than it's not out yet. Looking back at the history of Honda's cars which didn't really different that much between years other than generation changes. When I bought my 2006 Honda Civic that year it was a total new design and loved it. Then later traded it in for 2009 CRV EX and now 2012 Honda Civic Hybrid. The past three cars all have been brand-new. 2012 year is different this time simply because I was taking advantage of awesome financing and dealer knocked off $3,000 from MRSP so couldn't really complain.

I do love the exterior look of the 2012 over the 2013 BUT the interior could have been improved. However, I will be making some mods interior of the car so it's not really big of a deal anyway. 2012 Hybrid model is the last year being made in Japan so 2013 and onward will be made here in USA. Not to nicpick but I always felt Japan build always better than USA build. I've seen this with my brand new 2006 model where it was built at the Ohio plant. Parts didn't fit right, moonroof was slightly crooked and some little pieces here and there weren't right. Only issue I have with my 2012 was the rear seat belt not working right. It's ok now as I've tried it again and never had problem since.

Had Honda NOT offer any deep discount and standard financing with 2012 model then we would have every right to complain. But due to slow economic downturn Honda didn't have a choice but to give deep incentives to move the 2012 off the lots.

I enjoy my new 2012 and getting great MPG which is exactly what I bought the car for. Some features like backup camera and updated NAVI features would have been nice but not necessary.
 
fyi, the new civic has better steering and incorporates larger sway bars...you '12ers may want to consider upgrading to the larger bars (which are cheaper than the aftermarket alternatives). Honda sells new bushings / brackets for the larger bars as well.
 
mno86 said:
I would agree with you, but if we dig a little deeper, I'd be curious to see what the average selling price for the 2012 Civics were compared to the 2006 (after all, that would be the best comparison, new model year versus new model year).

I don't have the numbers in front of me as to whether the 2012 sold more volume wise than they did in 2006, but I can tell you I bet my bottom dollar the 2012 Civic's sold cheaper than the 2006 did (money scaled to account for inflation of course). Additionally, the insane financing and money on the hood Honda started doing to get rid of the huge surplus of 2012 models they had in November and beyond certainly helped sales - but profitability wise, that's another story.

The dealerships around here were pretty much knocking $5,000 off Civic's for 2012 and BEGGING people to buy them as they started getting 2013s - and I watched more than a few prospective customers reject the 2012 in favor of the 2013. One actually said "This one looks cheaper than a rental car. Why is this one (referring to the 2013) so much nicer?"

To 90% of consumers, the Civic is a glorified Corolla. They aren't going to notice the nuances we see as 'flaws' for the 2012 Civic, and if they do they don't really care. They're buying it because its a Civic. Honda got lucky - this car, without the 2013 updates, would not have continued to sell well year over year, I don't think. It ws barely competitive when it came out in terms of build quality and material quality. So while the Civic did sell very well (better than anyone could've expected it to in spite of the negative reviews, rocky launch due to the tsunami, early recalls, and other debacles.

Frankly, I'm more surprised more of us on here aren't pissy with Honda for saying "Yeah, we knew the 2012 missed the mark before it even went on sale, and began the process to improve it." and "We thought consumers would adopt a more conservative perspective on driving due to the economic downturn." What? Who ever though "pay more, get less" was a smart business model, especially when your competition is getting exponentially better? Whoever made these decisions should be **** canned. I think Honda made a really lousy move, and it's irrevocably tarnished their already spotty reputation with me. Consumers deserve the best - which is why we buy Hondas. We did not get the best for 2012 even though it's a decent car. When you're Honda, selling "good" isn't enough - consumers expect you to sell great. And the 2013 is what the 2012 should've been - and Honda knows it.

That sound was the sound of 200,000 some consumers getting a mediocre product, and Honda knew it. That doesn't sit well with me. I still think my car is nice, but it's a far cry from the refinement my 2006 Si had, and after sitting in and driving a 2013, I can't help but feel my interior looks like a Hertz special. Not a great feeling.
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I will gladly repost what I shared with you on the other forum, mno86:

Go for it, mno86. I understand that you aren't happy with the 2012 model. I get it, we all get it. But couldn't you kindly contribute something to the community other than another post about how indignant you are over the 2013 MMC? I too have spent my hard earned money on this vehicle, and while I would love to have some of the features included in the 2013 Civic, at the end of the day, it it just a car. I am THANKFUL for being able to have a car that doesn't have engine leaks, busted up axles, dents in the hood, windows that don't roll down, a broken ac-- all the problems my previous car had. I like my car as it is more than adequate in its purpose. We're here to help you find peace and some sense of completeness with what you have. But you need to stop attaching so much significance to this changeover from the '12 to the '13. On with it, my friend. It's time to move on.
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P.S. Everyone who has stepped inside my car compliment the interior and applaud its no frill simplicity. They like the i-mid display, the shifter, the steering wheel, the way the center console is angled to the driver, and the seats. I don't drive a hertz special car because I make it feel like it's not.
 
There was no need to reshare it. You've made your opinion quite clear on the subject and I disagree with you.

You can feel free to either block me or disregard my posts. You do not get to condescend me and tell me I haven't contributed anything. I don't need to remind you that I was the one that put together a decade long archive of Honda Service News Bulletins for all Honda models, made them available for download to consumers across the country, and organized them in an easy to search/access thread on 8thCivic.com, or that I created one of the most accurate ways of holding Honda accountable when they lied to owners about 3rd gear issues when people called corporate to complain by assembling a case file list of who we spoke to, one what dates, and our case file numbers. What have you done in comparison, if you want to measure our value on these forums by such metrics. I doubt it's nearly as extensive as my accomplishments. I'd be happy to supply you with the links to both so you can see the amount of work and time that were invested to assist other members - my work and my time.

So before you tell me that I haven't contributed anything to either of these forums, I suggest you remove your foot from your mouth and move along yourself. I apologize if that is very edged, but you were quite edged yourself. I'm sorry you're annoyed by my articulate and frequent musings on Honda's failure (and it was a failure on some levels..the evidence is overwhelming, don't make me grab the quotes), but the brilliant thing about these forums is that you are allowed to block me or, if you have the self-control, ignore my posts if they bother you so much.

Constructive discussion on these topics (a topic, I might add, that is still extremely relevant) is what these forums are here for. It's not all about sunshine and rainbows and sharing how much we unequivocally love our cars - though there is a time and a place for both. The nature of this thread implies quite overtly that there will be discussion related to the changes from 2012 to 2013. And opinions are in no shortage.

Have I attached too much signifcance about this change? Perhaps. But I'm tired of major corporations screwing over consumers - I've had spotty luck with a lot of products, and next to no company stands behind their product when a failure arises. And I find that detestable. Perhaps my frustration is so paramount to me because I am a 26 year old who worked his *** off to buy the best car he could afford for the money, all to hear Honda smugly say "We realize we undershot the target before the 2012 even went on sale and knew we had to make changes."

That, my friend, is corporate failure and being out of touch with your consumers. And a disservice to people who loyally purchased their vehicles under the guise that they would be taken care of by buying the best effort Honda could make. This was not the case with the 2012 Civic and it stings a little bit. Again, being 26, I do not have the disposable income to sell and take out another loan. I refuse to give Honda one red cent to validate this decision by buying a 2013, but if I could, I would definitely sell and buy soemthing else. Sadly, that is not in the cards for me. Fortunately, I do love my Si despite the fact that it does share more in common with a Hertz rental than my 2006 Si did, but on the whole, it is an adequate car and I get enjoyment out of driving it and enjoy how it looks and performs.

But I didn't buy a Honda because I wanted their adequate effort. I bought a Honda expecting their best effort. And that, after much ado, is where I stand.

I'm not going to stop discussing this topic as it is relevant, and I'm sorry that annoys you. I am not creating "anti-Honda threads" nor am I hijacking threads that do not have any relation to this topic for my 'agenda'. I am discussing and venting my frustration in a venue of like-minded peers, many of whom agree with me. Think obsessive of me or think ill of me if you like, but I am unaware of any forum rules I am breaking by posting on topic. Calling me out like you did, however, drags the thread off topic and results in me rebuking you and further driving the thread off topic by having to overcompensate and explain myself for the 30th time. Keep calm and carry on. I truly am sorry if you can't see some logic in my madness and that I annoy you, but a lot of things annoy me. Having to explain myself over and over again as I've just done is at the top of the list, but I'm doing it again, aren't I? Somethings can't be helped.
 
How's this, I agree with you both, but the banter isn't needed. Had I waited I would've gone with the 2013. But I didn't. And I'm still happy with my 12. I don't feel like Honda screwed me over though. And we shouldn't worry about how much or in what way a member contributes. Just be happy that they do. That's what this is about. Now... Back on topic please :)
 
Wow mno86 I hope I didn't offend, not my intentions what so ever. I love that we are able to communicate our opinions to each other, and I applaud the service you have done. I had a big issue with my Honda in the beginning, lucky for me I raised enough hell to make them aknowledge my issue. (I had to have my pistons replaced because of oil consumption issues.) and I agree I don't think Honda should have released a sub par product if they knew it was sub par. We all hold Honda to a higher standard because of their previous accomplishments. All in all I'm glad to have you here and contributing to my favorite niche in the world, Honda cars.
 
mno86 said:
There was no need to reshare it. You've made your opinion quite clear on the subject and I disagree with you.

You can feel free to either block me or disregard my posts. You do not get to condescend me and tell me I haven't contributed anything. I don't need to remind you that I was the one that put together a decade long archive of Honda Service News Bulletins for all Honda models, made them available for download to consumers across the country, and organized them in an easy to search/access thread on 8thCivic.com, or that I created one of the most accurate ways of holding Honda accountable when they lied to owners about 3rd gear issues when people called corporate to complain by assembling a case file list of who we spoke to, one what dates, and our case file numbers. What have you done in comparison, if you want to measure our value on these forums by such metrics. I doubt it's nearly as extensive as my accomplishments. I'd be happy to supply you with the links to both so you can see the amount of work and time that were invested to assist other members - my work and my time.
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Look back at my post and tell me I claimed you haven't contributed anything. Evaluate your posts and see if you shared something RECENTLY that wasn't regarding the 2013 model refresh.


So before you tell me that I haven't contributed anything to either of these forums,
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Again, never claimed this. Please look at your most recent posts and tell me that you have discussed something with much breadth and vigor as you do regarding the 2013 refresh.

I suggest you remove your foot from your mouth and move along yourself.
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A bit brusque, to be honest. (In response to your point about constructive discussion, which I will address more later on)

I apologize if that is very edged, but you were quite edged yourself.
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I understand, and I am sorry that I sounded upset at you.


I'm sorry you're annoyed by my articulate and frequent musings on Honda's failure (and it was a failure on some levels..the evidence is overwhelming, don't make me grab the quotes), but the brilliant thing about these forums is that you are allowed to block me or, if you have the self-control, ignore my posts if they bother you so much.
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Point conceded. I was growing annoyed by your constant declarations of how indignant you are over your car.

Constructive discussion on these topics (a topic, I might add, that is still extremely relevant) is what these forums are here for.
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Absolutely. But I wouldn't say you're well versed in "constructive discussion" when you have taken one side (the failure of Honda) and continue to run with it despite other people sharing with you why you might want to rethink the angle of your argument. Constructive discussion suggests there is a a type of movement within a conversation that volleys between differing viewpoints. You seem to refuse to consider any other viewpoint except your own. So how does that make for a constructive discussion?


It's not all about sunshine and rainbows and sharing how much we unequivocally love our cars - though there is a time and a place for both. The nature of this thread implies quite overtly that there will be discussion related to the changes from 2012 to 2013. And opinions are in no shortage.
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I agree, and it shouldn't be always "sunshine and rainbows". But it also shouldn't be "black plague and violent death". And again, I agree that the thread is about the changes from the 2012 to 2013, but that's not my premise or my argument.

Have I attached too much signifcance about this change? Perhaps. But I'm tired of major corporations screwing over consumers - I've had spotty luck with a lot of products, and next to no company stands behind their product when a failure arises. And I find that detestable. Perhaps my frustration is so paramount to me because I am a 26 year old who worked his *** off to buy the best car he could afford for the money, all to hear Honda smugly say "We realize we undershot the target before the 2012 even went on sale and knew we had to make changes."
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Good point. But what do you expect from the "market place"? You already know about the business model being implemented since, after all, we live in the United States. And you realize that Honda's comments are post hoc to the bad reviews? For all we know, Honda may really stand by their 2012 product, but AS A BUSINESS, it has to address the proposed problem and provide a solution so its secondary and tertiary audience has their perceptions changed moving forward. Does that, in a way, leave us behind and adversely affect us, their primary audience? Sure, it does, but Honda as a business has MANY stakeholders and people affecting stakeholder perceptions (not just us!) to make happy in order to sustain their slice of the pie. This is the market place.

That, my friend, is corporate failure and being out of touch with your consumers.
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From our perspective, you can think of it that way. But from their perspective, everything being post hoc, it's being smart in sustaining key relationships with everyone, not just the consumer.


And a disservice to people who loyally purchased their vehicles under the guise that they would be taken care of by buying the best effort Honda could make.
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This is your opinion. A "disservice to people"? Perhaps you could do a qualitative analysis on this to have some sort of evidence to back up your claim. But for now, that is one anecdote and you do not speak for "the people".


This was not the case with the 2012 Civic and it stings a little bit. Again, being 26, I do not have the disposable income to sell and take out another loan. I refuse to give Honda one red cent to validate this decision by buying a 2013, but if I could, I would definitely sell and buy soemthing else. Sadly, that is not in the cards for me.

Fortunately, I do love my Si despite the fact that it does share more in common with a Hertz rental than my 2006 Si did, but on the whole, it is an adequate car and I get enjoyment out of driving it and enjoy how it looks and performs.
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I still get a sense of indignation from you. You would buy something else despite "loving" the Si?



I'm not going to stop discussing this topic as it is relevant, and I'm sorry that annoys you. I am not creating "anti-Honda threads" nor am I hijacking threads that do not have any relation to this topic for my 'agenda'. I am discussing and venting my frustration in a venue of like-minded peers, many of whom agree with me.
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Yes, which is good, because communities like this one offer support and advice to every member.

Think obsessive of me or think ill of me if you like, but I am unaware of any forum rules I am breaking by posting on topic. Calling me out like you did, however, drags the thread off topic and results in me rebuking you and further driving the thread off topic by having to overcompensate and explain myself for the 30th time.
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Or perhaps it's because you really don't want to reconsider your viewpoint and simply remain in all of that anger against Honda that results in you "rebuking" me.

Keep calm and carry on. I truly am sorry if you can't see some logic in my madness and that I annoy you, but a lot of things annoy me. Having to explain myself over and over again as I've just done is at the top of the list, but I'm doing it again, aren't I? Somethings can't be helped.
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Mno86, it's not "you" who annoys me. I don't even know you, but based on the effort you put in your posts, I can tell you are a smart and thoughtful person. It's the framing of your posts and the degree of its fervor behind them that sometimes get to me. I acknowledge the shortcomings of my car-- it definitely isn't the best car out there either. So there will be a time when I voice my frustration as well. And for the record, would I want a center console tray, pandora integration, reverse backup camera in my car? Heck yes. But is that enough for me to say my car is mediocre and that I should take it personally to feel I was cheated by somebody? Initially, sure. But after some time, I would do my best to get over it.

And for you, I hope you do get over that. There are too many important things to worry about other than a car. For me, after spending time on this post, it's back to graduate school work, getting ready for my job, and taking care of my family. It's about making sure my mom's health is okay, and that my friend who was in a car accident recently is feeling better. It's making sure I can pay the bills and have enough money left over to help my mom out with hers. It's all these things and whatever life brings you.

It's about trying to be happy and content, despite your circumstances, is what I hope will happen to you.

That's all I have to say about that. Hope you did not feel indignant after my previous post. Apologies if I made you angry. I hope you read my responses with an impartial and open mind.
 
wow sure is a lot of arguing going on here.....
how about this guyss :D
154147_457018527685787_1992554158_n.jpg


Back to topiccc :D
 
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