9th Gen Civic Si Big Bore Throttle Body Upgrade Kit!

PRO Civic said:
  • Increases horsepower and torque by optimizing airflow to your engine.
  • Gains of up to 10+ hp, naturally aspirated (more on turbocharged and supercharged vehicles).
  • Huge 80mm inlet that tapers down to 70mm at the throttle plate.
  • An easy "plug and play" bolt-on installation. Includes installation sheet with torque specs as well.
  • Throttle body is made by Honda, and includes all DBW (Drive by Wire) circuitry.
  • Features high quality bolts and AN fittings.
  • Compatible with all factory sensors and emissions equipment.
  • Includes special throttle body spacer and thermal gaskets to help maximize power output.
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IPGJames said:
it amazes me that the members of this community though just accept the fact that this thing makes 10 hp because this company says it does...bigger is not always better...i 100% guarantee that..just because it is bigger than the Skunk2 and bigger than the OEM honestly doesn't mean a thing at all -- it either works or it doesn't but making horsepower claims without any real information to back up the horsepower claims is pretty ignorant and for anyone to fall for that is naive.
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Gains of up to 10+...meaning that it ranged from 1-10, and over. It will definitely provide over 10 whp depending on what other supporting mods are added (Bolt-ons, cams, turbo, or supercharger).

And gains in HP does not mean peak hp.

I'll use a member's dyno graph:

The car is using a Flashpro, Takeda 3" intake, ZDX TB (with adapter), RBC intake manifold, 3" dp, and 3" exhaust. And the car isn't fully tuned.
JAYBLS said:
Latest eDyno. More torque, less peak HP. I have a new calibration to datalog, so if there's an update, I'll post it.

C7BA6A22-4473-45E1-B4BC-9B68CB1C37DE-348-0000001A02250143.jpg
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you can't post a dyno graph of an engine that has a slew of things done to it and saw look...it works...without having any basis for comparison...for all you know that same setup could make 230 whp with the OEM throttle body

testing is really easy...dyno the car without the part on it...install said part...re-dyno the car and see the results...i am very well versed in how dyno comparions are done and that peak doesn't always mean everything...but again..no solid, conclusive information at all that this part does anything that the company selling it says it does.

that graph you posted does absolutely nothing to back up the claim that this (1) part makes between 1-10 horsepower
 
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I'm sorry you didn't like my response. The fact of the matter is we do not have a dyno chart for this particular modification, but I think it is a well established fact that a larger throttle body will give power gains. There are quite a few manufacturers that make big bore throttle bodies for both domestic and import applications, and I'm pretty sure many of them have specific dyno charts to back up the fact that a larger throttle body opening will add horsepower. Exactly how much power you gain is dependent on the other modifications you have, and at minimum we recommend an aftermarket intake.

Again, I'm sorry I do not have a dyno chart to back up the "up to 10+ hp" gain statement. I believe that range is pretty realistic though. It's hard to pin down exactly due to the variance in modifications the customer could have.

You might be interested to check out this link: http://cms.skunk2.com/id/496/K-Series-Throttle-Body-Dyno-Data/

The Skunk2 throttle body is a great product as well, they just don't have one yet for the 9th Gen Si. As you can see, a bigger throttle body is just part of the total equation when building an engine...you see better results from it when you combine it with other parts (intake manifold or port match, intake system, cams, tune, etc.).
 
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"A well established fact that a larger throttle body will give power gains.."

Absolutely not - that is not an established fact at all and you have no proof to otherwise. Bigger is not always better I 100% guarantee that. You have no concrete evidence of any sort to say this throttle body will make any power at all other than because "I said so"

I have had lots of engines on the dyno and seen lots of strange things - some things you never think would work did and other things that you think would be obvious don't work. Fact of the matter is there is only one way to prove this and that is to test it.

You can prey on the naive to sell your parts but realistically I can tell you for sure if you have actual concrete evidence to prove that this product makes power you will sell 10 times as many. Just food for thought. Saying because I said so doesn't work in performance world fortunately for the customers that are out to spend their hard earned money.
 
I know VitViper has tuned multiple 9th gen users who have upgraded their throttle bodies with increased hp/tq. Feel free to downsize your throttle body if you feel it's better. Vit... please feel free to chime in on your experiences if you're willing.
 
Comparing two different throttle bodies:

On a K20Z3 engine. J35 vs J37 (ZDX) tb (Using the same supporting mods and same J35 tune).

http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=105390

J35 Throttle body with 3.5" Intake:
204hp.jpg
J37 Throttle body with 3.5" Intake w/ same tune:
207hp.jpg


J37 TB w/ 4" intake same tune:
221hp.jpg
 
Thanks Dar Dar -- that is the actual first bit of real information that has been posted in this thread...

Granted it still doesn't back up the claims that Pro Civic has on their 80mm versus stock on a K24z7 engine but that is the information that a customer wants to see but at least you are finally understanding what I am getting at. Concrete Information !!!! Not some random text that sounds good to try and sell the customer a part that he may not actually even need.
 
The said claim, 1-10hp or 10+, can still be achieved using a proper tune, regardless of not proving it. Of course a stock car with a stock ECU will not get a significant amount of gain bc the ECU will not recognize the part so it will stay with the normal factory settings. You may even lose hp on the stock ECU. This is why Flashpro was made for these cars.

Testing TBs (or other bolt-ons) have been done by countless number of owners 9thgen, 8thgen, and so on and so forth. They have been tested to work of course using tuners, dyno, or e-dyno. It's like how a 4" isn't the best intake option, but a 3.5" gives the most significant amount of power on the NA K20Z3 or the K24Z7. Or how a 3" exhaust system works very very well on the K engines, while many people still don't believe it and still disagree.

Okay. So who tunes and test these products? Tuners or the company who made them. Who sells them? Shops/dealers/etc. So once products are tested to work, they are marketed. PRO Civic is only a dealer, who gets parts from other OEM/aftermarket parts makers and sells them. So please do some self research before trying to strike on a dealer (who obviously does not have a tuner shop). It's not hard searching 'J35 vs J37 tb' on google and finding good sources either. And of course you will be able to do the testing yourself bc you have a shop. And I see that you have a web store as well so it definitely benefits you a lot, especially when you get new parts.

And to finish this up, we are not talking about Super Chips that will put super duper hp/tq or super duper mpg ratings either so let's try to stay on the same page.
 
You don't need to tell me how this stuff works. Telling the community this part works when used with this part or that part is even more of a cop out.

You just backed up my point even more. Pro Civic isn't a shop, they are a dealer..whatever the f*ck that means...like because they are not a real shop they don't have to have real proof of what they are selling...if you check their website on that link this is not a part some other company is selling that they are reselling...this is their part...they are selling it as their upgrade kit..they aren't purchasing this from someone else just for resell they are packaging this kit as an upgrade for 9th gen civic owners...burden of proof is on them to show us that this stuff works...not my fault they aren't smart enough to figure out how to test this part and get the community real information because they are not a "tuner shop" - burden is on them. Don't get all bent out of shape because someone is actually challenging some claims that a "For Profit" company is making.
This thread would be a massacre on a more tech highlighted website like H-T or K20a -- Pro Civic would of quit and run away with their tail between their legs.... Because I Said So does not work in this industry period.

Funny thing on the Superchips comment...they are about 4 miles down the road from our shop...that is where we have been dyno testing because that is the hardest dyno in Central Florida to make power at...it is calibrated monthly and always true to the horsepower #'s it gives. I know a little bit about their testing process...not much about their marketing but their testing is true to word.

You said we are a shop or a web store...that is one facet of what we do but first and foremost we are racers...we are in this industry because we race and we love to work on these cars and make them better...the parts side of it helps support this passion of ours and we look for the truth in claims to make our racing efforts better and offer our customers knowledge during their purchase...we just don't just try and throw parts up to make a buck, I want to know this part I am selling the customer is a legitimate, worthwhile upgrade...just not a quick $50 in my pocket
 
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IPGJames

James,

Good sir, 8 posts so far, all but one in this thread about why this part is bad or not living up to its claims. Info certainly appreciated but perhaps start a new thread, or several, and post what does work with concrete evidence to back it up? I would definitely like to give that a read. Post info, let the peoples decide. Expertise, dyno proof, and racing background, I expect some good stuff from you. Thanks!
 
IPGJames said:
You don't need to tell me how this stuff works. Telling the community this part works when used with this part or that part is even more of a cop out.

You just backed up my point even more. Pro Civic isn't a shop, they are a dealer..whatever the f*ck that means...like because they are not a real shop they don't have to have real proof of what they are selling...if you check their website on that link this is not a part some other company is selling that they are reselling...this is their part...they are selling it as their upgrade kit..they aren't purchasing this from someone else just for resell they are packaging this kit as an upgrade for 9th gen civic owners...burden of proof is on them to show us that this stuff works...not my fault they aren't smart enough to figure out how to test this part and get the community real information because they are not a "tuner shop" - burden is on them. Don't get all bent out of shape because someone is actually challenging some claims that a "For Profit" company is making.
This thread would be a massacre on a more tech highlighted website like H-T or K20a -- Pro Civic would of quit and run away with their tail between their legs.... Because I Said So does not work in this industry period.

Funny thing on the Superchips comment...they are about 4 miles down the road from our shop...that is where we have been dyno testing because that is the hardest dyno in Central Florida to make power at...it is calibrated monthly and always true to the horsepower #'s it gives. I know a little bit about their testing process...not much about their marketing but their testing is true to word.

You said we are a shop or a web store...that is one facet of what we do but first and foremost we are racers...we are in this industry because we race and we love to work on these cars and make them better...the parts side of it helps support this passion of ours and we look for the truth in claims to make our racing efforts better and offer our customers knowledge during their purchase...we just don't just try and throw parts up to make a buck, I want to know this part I am selling the customer is a legitimate, worthwhile upgrade...just not a quick $50 in my pocket
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If you truly want to know buy one and test it yourself. If you don't think its worth the investment don't buy it. Thats your call. Others have there own. No need to call someone out like that just for selling a product countless people will use just because "you" want proof of the estimated gains.
 
webby said:
I know VitViper has tuned multiple 9th gen users who have upgraded their throttle bodies with increased hp/tq. Feel free to downsize your throttle body if you feel it's better. Vit... please feel free to chime in on your experiences if you're willing.
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People forget the one magic rule: diminishing returns. You can only squeeze so much power out of a naturally aspirated motor, this instance a 2.4L. Once you reach that threshold nothing you do will gain amazing amounts of power or any power at all -- that being said, no one has really done any conclusive TB testing. If someone wants to send me some various TB's to test on a 9th gen (I'll send them back, I promise ;)), I have a local 9th gen I can arrange something with. I'll even do it on a "real" dyno to make naysayers happy.

Something to keep in mind about Skunk2's comparisons: none of the graphs posted are of an internally stock K20 or K24. Why? Because anything larger than a 65mm nets zero hp on a fully bolted K series (K20 going from stock 60mm to 65mm TB gains about 2-3hp). I suspect on the K24 going from 65->70 is maybe 2-3hp as well.

The graphs on Skunk2's site show gains -- but look at the finer details. 11.5 C/R K20A2 (stock K20A2 is NOT 11.5 c/r). Or it's a higher C/R K24, or it's one of the two with a set of Skunk2 cams. And yes, I will tell you for a fact a larger than stock TB will make power when you have a set of Stage 2 cams in the car.
 
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Ahhh, thanks VitViper -- hopefully that will help them a bit more with the perspective on this stuff. Just because it is bigger doesn't mean a thing about it being better, lots more to all of this stuff.
 
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Nix said:
IPGJames

James,

Good sir, 8 posts so far, all but one in this thread about why this part is bad or not living up to its claims. Info certainly appreciated but perhaps start a new thread, or several, and post what does work with concrete evidence to back it up? I would definitely like to give that a read. Post info, let the peoples decide. Expertise, dyno proof, and racing background, I expect some good stuff from you. Thanks!
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I ordered a bunch of intakes on Tuesday to do some testing. I will give you guys some real information based on facts.

That will be the start to some testing that we have planned for this platform. Mostly we will be doing bolt-on stuff.
 
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I'd like to see some more dyno charts as well, specific to 9th gen applications. I expect there will be quite some variance in the gains, based on whatever mods each car has. That is why we advertise the gains as "up to 10+ hp". In reality, it would be better to have a smaller range of #s for each "modification set" that the end user had. So, if you just had an intake, maybe we could advertise 4-5 hp gains, or something like that. Intake/header/exhaust maybe would be 6-8 hp, etc. Those are just example #s to get my point across.
 
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