Air leak from windows?

what have they done to attempt fixing your car? Are you going for lemon law?
 
They've replaced the weather stripping (which took two trips) now they're going to replace "quarter panel garnish". I'm not going to attempt for lemon because I've already got the windows tinted and the whole skunk2 exhaust and dp installed.
 
so in your case, was the wind issue there from day one, or it just started one day?
 
It was from day one. I never noticed during the test drive because I never got above 35 mph. My main problem is that I love about an hour long drive away from the dealer. I have the feeling they're giving me the run around because they refused to give me the satisfaction survey the last time I was there
 
when you go there the next time, I'd ask to drive another civic to see if you notice a difference
 
I test drove a 2012 before my 2013. I was debating wether to buy new or used. When I purchased my new civic I assumed it wouldn't have any problems because the 2012 didn't. That's we're I messed up. And I know for a fact it's not regular for cars to be that damn loud. I went from driving an 06 tacoma to a 2010 Camry to my 2013 civic. And I feel like I'm driving an old clunker from all the road noise. Not to say I don't like the feel, I just don't like that damn air leak
 
Looks like the lengthy message I posted this morning didn't post - bummer....here's an update and a question:

I met with an engineer from Honda regarding the leaky door panel on the driver's side, as well as general dissatisfaction and noise related complaints.

Started out fine, though I worried I wasn't being taken seriously (I admit, its a 'minor' complaint in the grand scheme of things). Long story short, he test drove it with me, heard it, and basically said "Look, I can't reverse engineer this car, and while I do hear what you're saying, as an engineer I am telling you this noise is normal." I forget the phenomena he used to describe it, but essentially said it can vary depending on conditions and how the wind hits the car - it was a design thing and he wouldn't agree to repair something that is, regardless of acceptability or not, "flawed". "As an engineer, your use of the word flaw is incorrect. If other vehicles - and not a 2013 Civic because you cannot compare the two vehicles - are doing it, it is normal, not a flaw. The two cars are engineered differently, for better or worse"

We got a little heated at that point and both said some stupid things, which after a second drive with the dealer's service manager, came back and apologized, as did I. We test drove a 2012 EX-L navi coupe, and I confirmed that it made the same noise as my vehicle

At that point, we discussed "why". I realized that the 2012 LX sedan I had which was very quiet was just that - a sedan. He said coupes are typically louder, and the engineering behind is that the door panel is longer or something. However he said he wanted me to be happy and gave me the following options:

1.) They could try to use insulation from the 2013 door in mine to 'fix' it and toss an extended warranty at me.

or

2.) They could work out a deal and get me into a 2013 Si and throw some cash on the hood.

Here's my dilemma: based on the following information, should I take this second offer? After all of the number crunching and discounting, here's where were at

My Car:
-2012 Civic Si Coupe (no navi / no summer tire option)
-XM installed
-1.9% APR
-17,000 miles
-Gap Coverage
-Trade-In Offered: $17,000 estimated
-Payoff Remainder: $15,xxx
-Monthly Payment: $294.00 at 60 months

I balked at the price a bit and he said "I'm going to be honest with you. We have so many 2012s on the lot. We're selling the Si for $19,000 right now, and those have 0 miles on them. You have 17,000 miles. Its unfortunate, but this is the reality we're facing with these cars." (a long-held worry confirmed...)

Their Offer:
-2013 Civic Si coupe or sedan (no navi / no summer tires)
-Comp XM unit installation ($500+)
-1.9% APR
-$1,750 discount ($750 dealership discretionary cash + $1,000 Honda threw at them)
-$500 gap coverage refund.
-Gap Coverage
-Total Amount Financed $20,069 ($21,xxx after tax title and registration)
-Car Price Before Discounts: Invoice ($21,500ish)
-Monthly Payment: $313ish at 72 months

My question is should I take it? Money's tight right now, and while I CAN afford the $20 odd difference increase each month, I'm not crazy about financing another several thousand for 72 months (I suppose I could always pay more each month). Its financially doable but I feel like its unneeded, but I am unhappy with the refinement of the 2012, whether this makes me ridiculous or not.

I can't get the price down any further, and the sales manager was very honest and forthcoming, and definitely tried to find every penny we could save.

Essentially, I'd be getting all the 'upgrades' for a 2013 Si, 17,000 less mileage, and not having to deal with the flaws of my 2012. The downside: I have to finance another $5 to 6,000 on top of my current payoff, and the loan term is up to 72 from 60. It seems like a pretty good deal all things considered given my monthly payments aren't increasing by more than a few dollars, but is it truly worth it at the end of the day? I'll end up paying way more if I only go by making the minimum payments.

I wanted to see what you all think - is this is a smart decision worth the cost of the additional financing? My partner feels like it is given the 2013 is a new car with 17,000 less miles than my current one, I'll be happier with it, and the resale could potentially be higher. I'm no scrooge with money, but I want to make sure the numbers make sense to people on here who might be more wise than I am.

(Also, I noticed that the 2012 EX-L navi coupe TELLS you verbally to buckle your seatbelt. So glad the non-navi ones don't do that. A beep is plenty...
 
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It sounds like a good deal. Of course you will have to be paying that much longer. Problem is my 13 si has that air leak, so I would suggest a test drive.
 
another question... are they willing to try option 1 to see if it resolves the issue, but then let you take option 2 if it doesn't fix the problem? Or,... it's one choice?

We test drove a 2012 EX-L navi coupe, and I confirmed that it made the same noise as my vehicle
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so, you drove a 13 model and it did NOT have the noise?
 
webby said:
I'm at an absolute loss for words. Why doesn't he just go for a test ride in another 2012 and record those decibel readings for comparison? If other test vehicles all show a major difference...something is up. I can't even figure out how he has readings over 100db?? Surely he test drove the car? Surely it didn't just happen? Is it engine noise, tires, wind....? I don't really see him blaming it on anything. Have you talked to this person?
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I know I am late to the thread but 100db?!?!

That is seriously loud. Something like your car stereo all the way up with a loud song.
 
beto2250 said:
It sounds like a good deal. Of course you will have to be paying that much longer. Problem is my 13 si has that air leak, so I would suggest a test drive.
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I'm beginning to think so too, and I've been thinking on it all day. I need to verify if this finance amount is before or after tax, title, and registration, but given he quoted $312ish for a monthly payment, I've never had anyone go back and say "oh well actually after TTR, it's now gonna be more", so I feel it might be implied. That, and there could be a finance variable of about $500 if he forgot to include the gap refund - but he seemed pretty sharp, so I feel like it was included.

Did you say you owned a 2013 coupe or sedan? In my experience the wind noise on the 2012 sedan was very minor compared to my coupe, and the 2013 LX sedan rental wasn't even comparable - it was quiet as a mouse. If its a coupe - maybe this is the issue.

I'm concerned about giving him an answer as to coupe or sedan, because he said the car will be available around June 1st, but it sounded like he was going to have to swap with another dealership. I'm almost wondering if I shouldn't go test drive a 2013 Si coupe and sedan at another dealership to compare, because they didn't have any but 2012s.

webby said:
another question... are they willing to try option 1 to see if it resolves the issue, but then let you take option 2 if it doesn't fix the problem? Or,... it's one choice?

so, you drove a 13 model and it did NOT have the noise?
Click to expand...

That's a good question. I hadn't thought to ask that honestly. He offered to try insulating the door panel(s) more and throwing in an extended service warranty plan on my 2012...and he used the word OR....take a 2013 at face with an extended service warranty plan or $1,000 off the hood on a car marked down to invoice.

To me, the money on the hood seemed like the better option. Honestly, I don't see myself happy staying in the 2012. It's a fine car, but I'm just part of that 1% that's hypersenstive to the shortcomings, and I am very butthurt by the updates they made. If its not financially wise or a good deal, I'll suck it up and live with the 2012, which I'd be fine with too, but it seems to me that its a good deal, and I'd be foolish not to take it.

To confirm, I test drove a 2012 EX-L navi coupe. Why he didn't let me test drive one of the many 2012 Si's they still have sitting around is beyond me, but regardless, the EX-L coupe made the same door panel noise as mine, at which point I conceded defeat to him, which is when he presented me with these options.

The 2012 LX sedan I rented a few times was noisy, but not nearly as noisy and didn't exhibit the 'air leak' issue like the coupes did. And the 2013 wasn't even close. If you got up right next to it you could hear an amount that not even a hearing aid turned up to 10 could hear, but the rest of the soundproofing made the interior so quiet it wasn't even worth noting. The road noise reduction made a significant difference.

Dragos said:
I know I am late to the thread but 100db?!?!

That is seriously loud. Something like your car stereo all the way up with a loud song.
Click to expand...

Yeah, he used to have a website, but has since taken it down to redo it as they came to an agreement. I certainly don't claim to have that high of a db, but the road noise is terribly obtrusive on the highway in this car (at least to me) and to have it compounded by the weird noise in the door panels is too much for me. I know it sounds ridiculous, but we all have our expectations and thresholds, ya know?
 
It's a coupe. And I test drove a 2012 si sedan before purchasing my 13 si coupe and heard no raid noise whatsoever. So I made the dumb assumption that my car wouldn't have an air leak.
 
Oh and you might be better off with a sedan if you live with more than one person lol. I have the coupe because I'm a college student and I can only fit small girls in the back and one friend in the front
 
mno86 said:
Yeah, he used to have a website, but has since taken it down to redo it as they came to an agreement. I certainly don't claim to have that high of a db, but the road noise is terribly obtrusive on the highway in this car (at least to me) and to have it compounded by the weird noise in the door panels is too much for me. I know it sounds ridiculous, but we all have our expectations and thresholds, ya know?
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Oh i agree the car is not the quietest I had, i actually like it but i fully understand not everybody will enjoy that. My surprised comment is more about the 100db which is too loud to hear conversations, radio or anything. A proper measurement is at a distance where the driver's ears are located. I certainly doubt it was 100db at the driver's head level or at the window, maybe outisde the car while driving. If it was 100db something must be broken badly. A powertool like a table saw is in that range and that's pretty loud.
 
beto2250 said:
It's a coupe. And I test drove a 2012 si sedan before purchasing my 13 si coupe and heard no raid noise whatsoever. So I made the dumb assumption that my car wouldn't have an air leak.
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I'm beginning to wonder if this is an issue relegated to the coupes, because both you and I (and frequent other sedan owners) seem to have noticed that the sedan doesn't have the noise - Si or not.

Well it sounds as though people think that its a good deal. A quick look on TrueCar.com has the average price paid for a 2013 Si at around $23,000. If the number he quoted reflects tax title and registration, I think we should be good to go. Not crazy about financing another $5,000 bringing my loan to $20,000, but I'd be getting a car with 17,000 fewer miles and upgrades that do matter to me.

My concern now remains as to coupe or sedan. I am a 26 year old guy, and while I do drive my friends around quite a bit and they whine about being in the back, I have WeatherTech mats so I'm not as worried about them wrecking. My main concern is this noise. If the 2013 coupes are exhibiting similar noises on the two doors, that might be enough to steer me away. I do like how the 2013 Si sedan's look, but I have always been partial to coupes. They fit my personality, lifestyle, and 'image' I like portraying. Would I mind more usable luggage space or for friends - of course, but my ego's bigger than my practicality. But I'm not sure it's so big that I could justify getting into another coupe if its just going to make the same noise. My 8th gen's never had this noise issue with their windows.

This is a tough call, especially without test driving it.
 
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Forgot to mention that the noisier nature of the car actually won me over, i love hearing the gear box, the exhaust, the engine. I do not have the air leak noise but eitherwise it is a noisy ride. I test drove faster cars but I was looking for some excitement not comfort when i bought this car so it works great for me.

I wish i could get more road vibration and noise from the stock setup, but some 18s or 19s should address that properly with some stiffer suspension.
 
As far as I've researched, the majority of air leak problems are from the drivers side door only. And depending on your height (I'm 6 foot) you can only fit a small/short person in the back. I sat in the back once and my head was hitting the top so I had to slouch the whole ride
 
Dragos said:
Forgot to mention that the noisier nature of the car actually won me over, i love hearing the gear box, the exhaust, the engine. I do not have the air leak noise but eitherwise it is a noisy ride. I test drove faster cars but I was looking for some excitement not comfort when i bought this car so it works great for me.

I wish i could get more road vibration and noise from the stock setup, but some 18s or 19s should address that properly with some stiffer suspension.
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I know quite a few people who agree with you on this. They like how much more connected they feel to the car, and it makes sense. I do love hearing the engine and the exhaust. For me though, the amount of tire chatter and road noise transferred into the cabin is a bit excessive, especially when paired with the air leak in the door panels. I don't know what else to call it. I drove five and a half hours last night on a trip, and listened to an audiobook of World War Z. I had to constantly make adjustments to the volume in order to hear the narrator, depending on the road surface and wind. Never had to do that in a car before and I don't expect to ever have to again, unless I'm buying a soft-top vert lol.
 
beto2250 said:
As far as I've researched, the majority of air leak problems are from the drivers side door only. And depending on your height (I'm 6 foot) you can only fit a small/short person in the back. I sat in the back once and my head was hitting the top so I had to slouch the whole ride
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You and I sound like twins. I'm 6'0 as well, and the roofline is low (I have medium length hair that I style, and it regularly gets 'stuck' on the felt headliner lol). The backseat is unusable for me. I have to slouch down and "ride" the back of the driver's seat in order to fit. Aesthetics aside, common sense is pointing me towards a sedan just as a precaution.

Maybe I should go test drive the 2013 coupe and sedan and see. It's weird, because I swear to you that my car did not make this noise when I first bought it.

Have you tried my "trick" that 'fixes' it? When your window is all the way up, press the down button for a fraction of a second, so that the window moves, but remains completely sealed. For most people I've talked to, this eliminates the noise completely but I know a few it hasnt' worked for. The downside to this now for me is that my window rattles over bumps like this. Its a trade off, I suppose.
 
As a matter of fact I actually thought of it before I read your tip lol. It did not work at all. I want to say the problem is with the door expanding :/. I can live with it, but the thought of it there gets me from time to time. Thankfully my skunk exhaust is louder than the leak lol. But when I have my silencer in, the leak is noticeable once again
 
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