For those who are skeptical about the k24z7

spdandpwr

spdandpwr

Well-Known Member
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NY / CT
CT-Engineering released their supercharger kit for the k24z3 powered 09+ tsx. Mechanically, the engine is exactly the same as the si, so I wouldn't be surprised if the kit crosses over. Which has me worrying that the si will still utilize the antiquated m62 blower, like this kit does.

Regardless, the kit claims the following: Adds 45-50 Horsepower and 30-35 lb/ft.

Link to kit:

http://www.ct-engineering.com/Produ...erKit0910TSX4Cylinder/tabid/1541/Default.aspx

Here's some video:


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoZ73nWjeds



Here's a video of how the exhaust sounds on an s/c tsx with ct exhaust, not bad:


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXS_dhHfw30
 
so $4k for the kit (without installation), plus around $700 for flashpro? Seems like a lot of coin for the benefits
 
Yea I'm just gonna go turbo. Especially because we can't utilize a header. Turbo is easier to add more boost as well. Plus with a supercharger it takes power to make power because it runs off the engines belt system. Producing a load on the engine. Turbo just makes more sense to me. Especially since they're so close in price. If the sc was like 2500 it'd be a different story.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
 
lol, the point of the thread is to show that even with an integrated header, a stage 1 is netting similar, if not more (at least in torque), gains than an stage 1 sc in the k20.
 
i was conemplating if i ever do boost on my new SI doing a turbo or a blower... blowers tend to be expensive and less HP per $$ when compared to a turbo, but i installed the CTE in my driveway on my k20, and you also gotta factor in that throwing in a fuel pump, injectors, plugs, and a pulley ($200 or so for pump, $300-$400 for good injectors, $50 or so for plugs, and the pulley was i think $100... so $500-$800 total) to jump to a stg2 @ a later date could bump this an extra 50-75hp and 60lb tq or so over the stg1 (a grand total of 100 or so hp and 75-100 tq over stock) could definitely make it worthwhile in my opinion.
antiquated blower system or not, and pricey or not, it's a completely different experience with a SC vs a turbo, and i personally preferred the SC 10000% over my wrx's turbo setup, so i'd probably wind up being on board for this if i went with FI at some point
 
that's a good thing . the m62 was a gen3, the mp62 is the 4th gen of the eaton M series, which has a bypass valve for low throttle bypass to help off boost fuel consumption... also the mp62 fits higher rpm engines better than the m62 (i don't know why, i'm going off what i found from an eaton/magnuson engineer in a forum post response to the miatas)... the m62 makes more low end power and less top end, the mp62 makes more top end and less low end, overall still better than a turbo for a DD imo
 
mongoose221 said:
i was conemplating if i ever do boost on my new SI doing a turbo or a blower... blowers tend to be expensive and less HP per $$ when compared to a turbo, but i installed the CTE in my driveway on my k20, and you also gotta factor in that throwing in a fuel pump, injectors, plugs, and a pulley ($200 or so for pump, $300-$400 for good injectors, $50 or so for plugs, and the pulley was i think $100... so $500-$800 total) to jump to a stg2 @ a later date could bump this an extra 50-75hp and 60lb tq or so over the stg1 (a grand total of 100 or so hp and 75-100 tq over stock) could definitely make it worthwhile in my opinion.
antiquated blower system or not, and pricey or not, it's a completely different experience with a SC vs a turbo, and i personally preferred the SC 10000% over my wrx's turbo setup, so i'd probably wind up being on board for this if i went with FI at some point
Click to expand...
mongoose221, why do you like the SC better than turbo. I have zero experience with either so I'm curious to hear about the advantages and disadvantages of each and peoples opinions of each type of FI.
 
sure man : )

this is how i understand turbo vs sc in general:
DISCLAIMER: i do not pretend to be a mechanic, nor a true tuner, i just have a lot of general information, as well as personal experience with both a supercharged k20 and a stage2+ wrx as my DD's and this is my personal information i've "learned" so to speak and my OPINION on which is better, there are FACTS which cannot be disputed (higher dyno #'s from a turbo, but a narrower powerband also) vs SUBJECTIVE OPINIONS (i prefer the SC powerband in daily driving vs the turbo, some may not) so PLEASE take this with a grain of salt, hell a whole salt lick if you wish, knowing that this is MY OPINION gleaned from facts, i am NOT saying one is "better than the other" as both have pros and cons

-SC boosts throughout rev range, turbo does not... this leads to "turbo lag" for a turbo, wherein you hammer the gas, wait for the turbo to "spool" to make boost, and then you get a rush of power... this issue varies depending on the size of the turbo, the boost solenoid controller, and a few other things i can't think of off the top of my head, but generally a smaller turbo provides less power but a faster spool, and a larger turbo provides much more power but a slower spool (thus more lag), obviously this can be adjusted for every setup, and tuned to find a "sweet spot" where the customer prefers... in an SC it basically takes your current power curve and "lifts" it as a whole is the best way to put it...

example:
stock setup (made up #'s, just for comparitive sake) might look like this:
-1500 RPMs 75hp, 100tq
-3000 RPM's 150hp, 150tq
-5000 RPM's 175hp, 160tq
-7000 RPM's 200hp, 130tq

SC setup (again made up #'s) that gains ~50hp and ~50tq across the board
-1500 RPM's 125hp, 150tq
-3000 RPM's 200hp, 200tq
-5000 RPM's 225hp, 210 tq
-7000 RPM's 250hp, 180tq

Turbo setup (again made up #'s) peak gains of 100hp and 100tq in "spooled" ranges
-1500 RPM's 75hp, 100tq
-3000 RPM's (turbo spooling) 160hp, 160tq
-5000 RPM's (turbo spooled) 250hp, 250tq
-7000 RPM's (turbo unspooling) 230hp, 210tq

these are again MADE UP #'s just to illustrate how the power bands differ... basically a supercharger has a much wider/broader powerband than a turbo in general, but the turbo has a much higher peak, and in the ranges it makes power, it's much stronger

also for those wanting future expanadability, a turbo is the outright king. superchargers suffer from heat soak much more than a turbo, especially at higher boost levels, and it is much more difficult than just "turning up the boost" through the ECU and wastegate management, a supercharger needs a specifically calibrated set of "pulleys" to wrap the belt around which increases boost the smaller the drive pulley is. you can't just "turn the boost up" and it is a steadier boost level
ie. 3.5" pulley gives 5psi, 3.25" pulley gives 9psi, 3.15" pulley gives 13psi (set ranges per pulley size, whereas a turbo you can vary the boost)

another nice thing about the turbo is that you can vary the boost pressure based on the gear you are in through the boost solenoid ecu control and wastegate controller, so if you are putting down too much power to hook up your tires in 1st and 2nd gear, even 3rd, you can cut the boost to modulate power (so a max hp might not be reached until high 3rd or 4th gear, with say 5psi in 1st, 9psi in 2nd, 12psi in 3rd and 20psi in 4th) whereas a supercharger has a set boost throughout the gearing, so always puts down the same bonus HP, this can be problematic on a drag strip as you might just melt 1st and 2nd gear spinning

all this may point to the turbo if you are inclinded, but to me, i still prefer the SC, as in daily driving it just bumps the normal power curve up, so the car basically behaves very similar to how it would stock, only significantly faster, but the power curve is very similar, vs the "peaky" and "sharp" curves of most turbo setups

turbos have a LOT of moving parts and things to adjust/could go wrong vs a SC (or at least our mp62 design) which is just a twin screw overlapping in a chamber, a lot less parts to fail in my opinion and easier to install (pop off the intake manifold, pop the new one on, pop the blower on, put the belt on, rock and roll)

i prefer the lack of lag, the bypass valve on the blower (allowing it to free spin and not leech gas MPG driving it in lower throttle/normal driving) and the "whine" of the blower (that sound is addicting)...

one thing to know is this:

-if you are after dyno queen #'s or a 1/4 mile drag strip monster, you'll have to go with a turbo
i-f you are after a daily driver with instant power on demand, that the power curve feels similar to your stock setup, just a lot more powerful, and IMO better for autocross/twisy roads because you are never "out of boost" in the rev range then a blower is for you
-if you plan to increase HP in the future by strengthening the engine and trans, and would like a "higher ceiling" for your power #'s, go turbo
-if you plan to stick basically with what it gives you (knowing that at most, you might get 75-100more hp out of the blower) and just want a "stronger" DD go with the SC


hope that helps jonny, anybody else who wants to chime in would be appreciated too (maybe somebody who owned a turbo k20)
 
Turbo is more efficient. In other words, you can shove less boost down your motor and make more power than an s/c. Also, turbos make more torque (at least on the k20). The s/c also doesn't add +50 hp throughout the rev band...it adds power, and there's no spool, but the power progression is still linear like your average n/a motor.
 
yeah i was giving a "rough outline" of the differences between the two in terms of power delivery, i don't have a dyno of each to show the difference.
and yeah, turbo is more effecient for the power output, 4psi on a turbo gives much more than 4psi on a blower.
again though, i prefer the linear power delivery, as i said, it's subjective in that sense, though a turbo has a higher max hp ceiling.
 
yeah, as i said, i've owned both (blown stg2 k20, stg2+ wrx) and i think the k24 with a blower (even stg1) will be very solid for me. it's already got a butt ton of torque for a NA engine, and a very sweet power curve IMO, and if we just tack on another 40-50 hp and 30-45tq it'll be perfect for me
 
until a kit comes out, it's kind of hard to talk about. I mean, we can look at those #'s for the tsx and guess what things will be like for the si.
 
unfortunately, it took years for 8th to get a big user base going. It's hard to compare since this site is so new.
 
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