Shifting Question...

Michael Perez

Michael Perez

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Location
Miami, FL
Vehicle Model
2012 Civic Si
Body Style
Sedan
I know there are countless threads on this but i need a clear a defined answer. Under normal driving conditions all of my shifts are clean but the second i decide to push my car in 1st gear i almost always miss 2nd gear like i'm hitting a wall or something. I try to slow down my arm movement so it less jerky but it seems as if it still does it. Any help guys? also will this hurt my clutch or tranny??

Thanks Mike
 
I think you would have to speed up your arm movement. it sounds like you're letting out the clutch too quickly before actually engaging second. be sure to pull on the stick as soon as the clutch hits the floor, and maybe just practice pulling from first to second a few times without moving, just with the clutch down. get a feel for the movement and try driving it hard again to see if its easier.

Of course, launching in 1st and shifting at high rpms will wear out the clutch faster, but only if you do it a lot and are driving extreme.
Honda trans are very resilient, i dont think you will hurt it if you miss a shift every once in a while, happens to everyone.
 
hmm thanks :)
ill try that. its just embarrassing when others are in the car lol
 
I pretty much agree with 323 , with the exception of pushing the clutch to the floor.

The least amount of distance & "time" spent with the clutch disengaged the better it will be for the *drivetrain(engine rpm/trans rpm/drive wheels) to stay in sync. The longer the clutch is DE the engine rpms drop quicker than the drive wheels and that end of the tranny, and going from 1st to 2nd is a bigger ratio gap than from 2 thru 6.

Also like 323 addressed, practice feeling the movement of the gear shifter with the car not moving(think of a row of booths with no doors, if you try to go into a booth and don't watch-out for the walls edge, you will hit it or glance off of it)(they're called gates).

Another thing to feel is the engagement of the clutch...... Put your foot on the pedal and push a little till it feels like it won't give anymore(this is the point of taking any slack out, but you haven't disengaged the clutch yet)...... next at this point push it about an inch or two and shift(this is the zone that works without spending anymore time than necessary to get the gear changed).

I drove semi's for years, and it is the same but slower(plus there's double clutching that gets included).
 
Michael Perez said:
hmm thanks :)
ill try that. its just embarrassing when others are in the car lol
Click to expand...
Were you able to sink hoops the 1st time you picked up a ball? Ski down a black slope the 1st time?
It's amazes me how people understand that other sports takes practice and driving should be perfect without practice.........

Practice while alone..........
 
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Monk said:
I pretty much agree with 323 , with the exception of pushing the clutch to the floor.

The least amount of distance & "time" spent with the clutch disengaged the better it will be for the *drivetrain(engine rpm/trans rpm/drive wheels) to stay in sync. The longer the clutch is DE the engine rpms drop quicker than the drive wheels and that end of the tranny, and going from 1st to 2nd is a bigger ratio gap than from 2 thru 6.

Also like 323 addressed, practice feeling the movement of the gear shifter with the car not moving(think of a row of booths with no doors, if you try to go into a booth and don't watch-out for the walls edge, you will hit it or glance off of it)(they're called gates).

Another thing to feel is the engagement of the clutch...... Put your foot on the pedal and push a little till it feels like it won't give anymore(this is the point of taking any slack out, but you haven't disengaged the clutch yet)...... next at this point push it about an inch or two and shift(this is the zone that works without spending anymore time than necessary to get the gear changed).

I drove semi's for years, and it is the same but slower(plus there's double clutching that gets included).
Click to expand...

I try to position my seat so I can achieve exactly what you are describing for optimal depression of the clutch itself. Of course, this distance (clutch depression) will change over time as the car ages unless adjustments are made.
 
Monk said:
Were you able to sink hoops the 1st time you picked up a ball? Ski down a black slope the 1st time?
It's amazes me how people understand that other sports takes practice and driving should be perfect without practice.........

Practice while alone..........
Click to expand...

True that, people think that a "real" driver should just be able to get up and go and shift like professionals, but it took me a few months with this car (it being my first manual) to get shifting down. and even tho i've had it for about a half a year now and i can shift good, i still cant launch right. everything just takes practice.
 
323 said:
True that, people think that a "real" driver should just be able to get up and go and shift like professionals, but it took me a few months with this car (it being my first manual) to get shifting down. and even tho i've had it for about a half a year now and i can shift good, i still cant launch right. everything just takes practice.
Click to expand...

I have had two motorcycles and a manual car previously (7th civic) and it still took me a few thousand miles to really be comfortable with the intricacies of this transmission.
 
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squiggy said:
I try to position my seat so I can achieve exactly what you are describing for optimal depression of the clutch itself. Of course, this distance (clutch depression) will change over time as the car ages unless adjustments are made.
Click to expand...

I agree with this too, usually i have the seats in my car pushed all the way back because i'm pretty tall and thats just comfortable, but in this car i'm up a little in the seat because my arm feels more comfortable shifting and left leg is better positioned for the clutch. Play around with your sear a bit, especially that pump lever that moves the seat up and down, get it to a comfortable position for your arm.
 
323 said:
I agree with this too, usually i have the seats in my car pushed all the way back because i'm pretty tall and thats just comfortable, but in this car i'm up a little in the seat because my arm feels more comfortable shifting and left leg is better positioned for the clutch. Play around with your sear a bit, especially that pump lever that moves the seat up and down, get it to a comfortable position for your arm.
Click to expand...

I am short, so it has been interesting trying to balance a comfortable position between the feel of the seat, reach to the shifter, and clutch depression distance. I will be able to solve part of this soon with a sliding arm rest, though. When in fifth, my elbow barely touches the arm rest and even then it is not comfortable.
 
squiggy said:
I am short, so it has been interesting trying to balance a comfortable position between the feel of the seat, reach to the shifter, and clutch depression distance. I will be able to solve part of this soon with a sliding arm rest, though. When in fifth, my elbow barely touches the arm rest and even then it is not comfortable.
Click to expand...

323

Sure did. Have some :coffee:. ;)
 
Another thing that matter a lot for that are shoes, at least for me. Ideally no shoes or some of those racing shoes are perfect, some Puma or Adidas shoes are good as well. I cannot heel and toe properly with regular shoes in the Si (I have big feet) or feel all the minute vibrations with fancy shoes or sport shoes.
 
323 said:
I think you would have to speed up your arm movement. it sounds like you're letting out the clutch too quickly before actually engaging second. be sure to pull on the stick as soon as the clutch hits the floor, and maybe just practice pulling from first to second a few times without moving, just with the clutch down. get a feel for the movement and try driving it hard again to see if its easier.

Of course, launching in 1st and shifting at high rpms will wear out the clutch faster, but only if you do it a lot and are driving extreme.
Honda trans are very resilient, i don't think you will hurt it if you miss a shift every once in a while, happens to everyone.
Click to expand...

As much as I don't like drag racing legal or not,using my equipment. There is a pretty simple way to "launch"(both spinning the drive wheels, and not spinning the DW's).... Back to practice...... what you need to find for each car & tyre, is the rpm before releasing the clutch with the least amount of clutch slippage.....

Just try different rpm's till it works.... but remember what that rpm number is.............. and the surface of the road matters as well.......... It's not a perfect numbers game.
 
Monk said:
As much as I don't like drag racing legal or not,using my equipment. There is a pretty simple way to "launch"(both spinning the drive wheels, and not spinning the DW's).... Back to practice...... what you need to find for each car & tyre, is the rpm before releasing the clutch with the least amount of clutch slippage.....

Just try different rpm's till it works.... but remember what that rpm number is.............. and the surface of the road matters as well.......... It's not a perfect numbers game.
Click to expand...

It is also important to take into account road and tire temps!
 
For ppl that want to heel/toe, remember that most racing cars are able to adjust the pedals to the drivers technic / feet.

I like to use driving type shoes as well, even while not heel-toe ing.
 
Each car has its own feel when shifting. Most of the time I've had difficulty shifting quickly, it's because my hand was influencing the movement of the shifter too much, rather than letting it go throught the gates on its own.

Most of the time shifts go better when my hand is flat, and just moving the knob in the general direction it needs to go.
 
The shift speed is also limited by the synchros. They need time to get the input shaft speed matched to the gear you're selecting so that the teeth don't grind. Basically, they use friction to force the free spinning input shaft (since the clutch is down) to turn the gears you're selecting. Since that gear wasn't previously selected, it's probably accelerating from a standstill, so it takes time for it to match the speed of the input shaft. You can force the lever to move faster, but you end up bypassing the synchros, which is why you get grinding. Shifting slowly is always smoother because the synchros have enough time to work
 
Lol thanks guys I will definitely take all of this into account as I have only had the car about a month
 
Forgot to mention my top pet peeve :) For smooth proper enthusiastic driving and gear changes turn off traction control. This can make the car wilder so gradual ramping up is required but it is the only way to get a nice performance out of the car. With TC on many times your car will hesitate right after the 1 to 2nd change and 1st gear launch will also be bumpy.
Bear in mind that turning TC off will turn off stability control and all safety except ABS so use with caution.
 
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