Shudder when engaging clutch

davefootball123

Well-Known Member
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Hi all, roughly 10 months ago, I had the clutch replaced on my 2012 Civic 1.8 as per Honda's recommendations. I didn't really notice anything wrong with the clutch other than Honda saying it would need replacing soon, roughly at 180,00 kilometres. There was a slight shudder on hot days when engaging the clutch. Iwent ahead and had the clutch replaced. Upon completion, there was a significant shudder engaging first gear this slowly subsided however it became intermittent, after highway driving it would be fine, sometimes would shudder etc. I took it back recently and then did the install again, still the same shudder. Completely new components including OEM clutch kit and flywheel each time. They don't think its the clutch and are potentially thinking its the lower torque mount.

Any ideas as to what else may be causing this? Any help would be great.

If thinking this may not be clutch related as if I have the e-brake engaged and do a normal start and the car doesn't move, there is no shudder but immediately upon releasing the e-brake it'll begin to shudder.

Thanks
 
I cannot think of anyone off the top of my head that's replaced mounts on the "non-si". I know a number have replaced the rear motor mount to a stiffer urethane to reduce wheel hop/motor movement. Example thread below =

http://9thcivic.com/forum/threads/2012-innovative-motor-mounts-all.12629/

It wouldn't be hard for them to unbolt the mount and see if the oem one was cracked though. Were they using a new throwout bearing each time too?
 
Yup a new throwout bearing each time. I'm wondering if it is the lower torque mount, because about a year and a half ago, I had a cracked air intake tube and under heavy acceleration the tube crack would open enough that the MAF would no longer read the correct volume of air in the intake, thus the engine would rock violently back and forth. The tube was replaced and all was well, but the slight shudder started to occur after this. After being recommended to replace the clutch, I wonder if the new components being so "grabby" exacerbated the issue and thus thats why it seems to diminish but never disappear fully.

Thoughts?
 
I think that's what I'll do. Any other thoughts as to what may be occurring? When the clutch is engaged, the car drives fine other than a very minor clunk when letting off the gas abruptly, maybe pointing again toward the torque mount.
 
I had a cracked air intake tube and under heavy acceleration the tube crack would open enough that the MAF would no longer read the correct volume of air in the intake, thus the engine would rock violently back and forth.
I'm going to say you definitely have a mount broken. I've never seen anyone have a cracked intake here.
 
Thanks guys. Regarding the intake tube. I'm unsure how that cracked. Given its accordion structure, I would imagine it can take quite a lot of flex. Thinking maybe the piece was defective or the filter being changed tore the rubber somehow. Either way I'll be looking into that for sure.
Thanks again
 
I replaced the lower torque mount. The shudder is subdued but still the same type of shudder. Likely the new mount just dampening it better.

Any ideas as to what it may be?
 
Did you replace it with an oem one? Upgraded ones usually have stiffer urethane, and have ratings for hardness. Did the old one have cracks?
 
I replaced it with an OEM one, no real cracks on the old one. I can tell there is a new mount in the car...seems a bit tighter. But the shudder still occurs.
 
I would look at the other mounts if you’re trying to diagnose it yourself. If they look good, it’s not unheard of to have clutch/bearing manufacturing flaws. I mean I find it hard to believe you had two bad in a row, but I don’t know. Did the tech say they looked at them to see if springs or the surface looked warped in any way, or just chucked the new clutch in? Seems like Honda would diagnose the “bad” ones they pulled out to see what was wrong.
 
I've been in contact with them and they are thinking that it isn't the clutch.

I imagine that would only leave the axles?
 
Axles are always turning if you're moving, so you'd feel vibrations constantly while driving. If it's happening while shifting, I still have to say it's the clutch/flywheel/throwout bearing being faulty, or a mount causing the motor/trans to rock in some way that you're picking up some type of vibration during shifting. I cannot pinpoint anything else that would cause it, but maybe someone else has a suggestion.
 
My first question would be if they/you broke in the new clutch properly? (assuming yes) Did you see the replacement parts they took out and "replaced again" to check for any scoring/overheating marks and/or proper bedding of the materials? Any axle issue usually comes with a vibration, usually on accel/deccel. Honestly from my experience if the problem only occurs on engagement of the clutch then that's where I'd look.
 
I do have both sets of replacement parts, they look fine. Not sure why the shudder would only be present when the wheels are moving. If the e-brake is engaged enough to prevent the wheels from moving while still engaging the clutch, it doesn't shudder or vibrate at all
 
With the parking brake engaged your not allowing your clutch to put the max torque transfer through without plain stalling and thus just slipping the clutch which in turn is overheating it to a degree and could cause more issues. Just my experience

I have a stage 1.5 comp clutch kit and act flywheel (i think act) with a bad passenger axle already diagnosed. I get shutters on take off from a stop intermittently depending on how I use my clutch. Axle and wheel bearing are 100% bad 100% of the time. This is not set in stone for everyone but just some info to share even if the clutch is factory. I got shutter on my factory clutch at times too getting it hot.

Side note: Had a bent half shaft (axle) cause 2 trans to shoot all the bearings and the new clutch to have issues when installed brand new. Never would have thought but things happen. Hope you figure it out
 
I'm wondering if it is axle related. There is some slight vibration under acceleration, but maybe not more than what would be expected. I only slip the clutch briefly during the e-brake test, just to make sure it isn't the clutch that is the issue.
 
I found this, I wonder if the external causes could be the case in this scenario given 3 clutch replacements. 1 by an independent shop and 2 by Honda. Would there be a way to test?
CLUTCH CHATTER

Chattering is a grabbing or jerking condition that occurs when the clutch is engaged. Clutch chatter is often caused by oil or grease on the clutch linings, but it can also be caused by burned or glazed linings, a warped or grooved flywheel, missing flywheel dowel pins, a worn pilot bearing/bushing, a worn bearing retainer, worn or damaged clutch disc or input shaft splines, bent or broken drive straps on the clutch, a bent or distorted clutch disc, a loose clutch cover or even missing flywheel dowel pins.

External causes of clutch chatter include loose or broken engine or transmission mounts, misalignment of the chassis and drivetrain components, worn or damaged U-joints or CV joints, a loose transmission crossmember, a worn or bent release fork, or loose rear left spring bushings or spring U-bolt nuts.
 
I did some more troubleshooting today. I unbolted the slave cylinder from the transmission, the slave cylinder is new so I didn't take it apart. I cleaned up the pivot ball location, as well as the slave cylinder rod. I added some high temp urea grease to the pivot ball location and drove the car. No shudder! This was for about 10-15 minutes then the shudder slowly came back albeit no where near as bad as normal. Any thoughts?
 
From a clutch site- (As you can see there are a ton of “potential causes”)

Diagnosis of Clutch Chatter

Clutch chatter is best described as a stutter or vibration as the clutch is released. It is most noticable when starting out from a complete stop. Clutch chatter is the most difficult clutch problem to diagnose and repair. Some clutch chatter problems can be caused by a clutch problem, but often the problem is caused by something other than the clutch.

Clutch related Chatter problems
Disc

  • Clutch Disc related Contamination: Oil on the disc from an engine or transmission leak
  • Torsion Spring Escaped: usually caused by “popping” the clutch or attempting to push start the car
Pressure Plate Distorted

  • Pressure Plate Related Warped friction plate: Usually due to excessive heat build up. Can be caused by excessively slipping the clutch
  • Warped Diaphram Spring: Defective part
  • Uneven Coil Spring Pressures: Defective part. Very few of this style clutch made today
Release Bearing

  • Release Bearing Related Damaged or Worn Release Bearing: Usually on very high mileage cars, or can result from extended operation with a defective pressure plate
  • Grooved release bearing guide
  • Worn bearing retainer
Pilot Bearing Related Damaged or Missing Pilot Bearing: Part failure

Warped Flywheel: Caused by excessive heat build up. Can be caused by excessively slipping the clutch, or overloading the vehicle. Flywheel may have to be replaced or resurfaced

Actuator Related
Worn Slave Cylinder

Binding Master Cylinder

Worn or Broken Pedal Bracket

Binding Cable

Worn Linkage

Engine Related
Broken Motor Mounts

Worn Thrust Bearing: Excessive crankshaft end play

Poor Engine Performance:Tune Up

Torn Air Flow Tube

Transmission Related
Broken Transmission Mounts

Worn Input Shaft

Worn Input Shaft Bearing:Excessive play

Misalignment:alignment dowel missing or Bolts could be broken or missing

Chassis Related
Worn Shocks/Struts

Worn U-joint or CV Joint

Defective Differential
 
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