'13 Civic Si BBK advice

The more research I do, the more I like AP Racing. I am contacting the American distributor to see if there is a way we can make them fit on our 9th Gen's.

I also came across an interesting option that I haven't seen mentioned: I am running the 18" HPD wheels that were made for HPD's aftermarket/upgraded CR-Z. There is a 4 pot BBK made by Honda/HPD for the same wheels featuring a 300mm rotor (doesn't seem very special otherwise). I wonder if this can fit on an Si, anyone know? Link below

http://www.collegehillshonda.com/product/45250-F27S-A04.html

I also still have some questions about fluid. I noticed that Honda owner's manuals note that we should only use Honda type fluid of the lowest number in our break systems, else undue corrosion may take place. Is there anything special about Honda's cylinders or brake systems that I should be wary of? Is it possible to run Dot 5.1? A high end brake fluid is clearly a must, and I'm wondering how high we can go and if there is any fluid type/brand that is not compatible with Honda (aside from Dot 5 fluid, I know that type of fluid is special and not usable unless the system is designed specifically for it)? It wouldn't be the first time our Honda's demanded special Honda fluid (see MTF).
 
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Stepping back again, I had said that I was interested in getting the most out of my brakes with, "only marginal price restrictions." I just wanted to clarify that I am willing to spend up to $2k on a BBK, which seems to encompass pretty much anything available aside from the Stoptech kit or Carbon Ceramic kits; which I really can't understand why the Stoptech kit costs so much, they do not get the best reviews across the board, aren't saving the most weight, and don't seem to offer as many options as Brembo and AP Racing are making. I also looked into Alcon, and their reviews and pricing are about the same as Stoptech with better track options (floating rotors, etc.). Wilwood is still on the table because they make a kit specifically designed to fit our cars (e-brake and all), but in comparison to Brembo and AP Racing their reviews don't stand up.

It seems like the biggest issue is fitment, and not just physically fitting all those big parts inside a given wheel. If we can retrofit Acura Brembo calipers, could we not fit any Brembo caliper that they make within space restrictions, or are the caliper mounts/mounting brackets entirely different? I'm seriously considering having AP Racing make custom mounting brackets since they don't make an OEM version for our cars, even if this puts me over my budget because they seem to be the best on the market. I am looking at having them installed professionally instead of doing it myself just because of fitment issues and lack of tools, depending on which kit I go with. I have also seen S2K's installing BBK kits from several of these manufacturers; since we are able to retrofit their rotors, could we possibly run/fit some of the same kits?

@Kevv_Si : Did you upgrade the rear with your kit also? Did you get bolted or floating rotors, or one-piece rotors? Have you pushed them hard on the track and still not experienced any fade issues? How much did you spend on that upgrade; pads, lines, and labor (if you didn't do it yourself) all included? It seems like the Wilwood kit is one of the best available that is designed specifically for our cars, but I haven't seen their reviews stack up as well as AP Racing or Brembo reviews. (Note, some of these reviews I am looking at are 5 years old - given that all these companies have been around for 20+ years with racing pedigrees I don't think much has changed, but I could be wrong.)
 
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With the fluid, the better race fluids absorb moisture quicker than the stock fluids. If you aren't swapping them regularly they will carry more water and could cause corrosion. Thats all.


You can certainly experiment with different caliper fitment. Just make sure the spacing is correct for the bracket and that you can get the rotor centered. Rotor spacing can be tricky. Also be sure that the bleeder bolt is in the right orientation so you can bleed the system once they are bolted up. AP might be able to give you measurements to test fitment before you purchase.

Here is the caliper fitment template from Stoptech for the 2012 SI. Other brake companies may have something similar. You print this out and then see if you have enough clearance for your wheels.

http://www.stoptech.com/docs/default-source/wheel-fitment-templates/98-062-2430-00_fp

I don't know if AP or anyone else has something similar. You could also call K-Sport. I know they made brake kits for the 8th gen but don't have anything listed for the 9th. Im pretty sure fitments will be similar. The TSX caliper is almost the same part number as the new 9th gen SI caliper. The revision number is different and the ears on the brake pads are different but the mounting points and rotor spacing should be the same.
 
So, I spent the week talking back and forth with one of Stillen's sales reps, and didn't get very far. They do not carry the same line of parts that AP Racing (a UK company) has, and basically only has two options for me: a 6 pot kit with 370mm rotors (and no hats because they don't make hats in that size that fit our bolt pattern) or a 4 pot kit with 355mm rotors which she cannot clarify if she has hats to fit in that size. Both kits are well over $2k, though very close in price to each other, and would require finding another shop to manufacture mounting brackets for the calipers and possibly hats. Basically, it's possible, but I would have to order most of the parts from the UK and it's not within my budget. If I owned my own machine shop, I would do it in a heartbeat.

Moving on I will be seeing if Brembo has anything else that could fit our cars aside from the TSX swap, but I'm guessing I will run into the same issue of having to manufacture my own mounting brackets since they aren't supporting our 9th gens in any of their performance upgrade kits.

@axion_industries Do you have a link to that kit? I am likely going to go with that kit since very few other companies aside from Wilwood are providing anything with correct fitment. Also, I'm not really enthralled by the color options; I would much rather have nickel coated calipers than red or black painted. Powder coating them is also possible; Options?
 
Your car has the equivalent of the TSX caliper already. All you need to get really good performance out of your brakes is a great set of pads and a fluid upgrade.

I have an 8thgen that had very small calipers. Honda went with a larger caliper on the 9th Si since one of the main complaints of the 8th was that the brakes were too small for the car and over heated easily.

On a 45min extended downhill mountain road I have no issues hitting the brakes hard repeatedly. Thats the TSX caliper with proper pads/fluid and blank rotors. No fade. This was the same road that I melted the piston boots and put the piston through the backing plate on the pads the year before.
 
Sorry I haven't been back here in awhile; started a new job that isn't making me enough money yet, and so many other curve balls life throws at you (see my latest blunder here). While I was away, I got some interesting news from AP Racing's actual headquarters in the UK:

Type R disc & bell offset taken from hub flange mounting face to rear disc face = 43mm. (The rear disc face needs to clear the discs splash plate at least 3mm.)
Centre location hole diameter = 64mm

The caliper from our Type R (FN2) kit is a 4 pot road type that’s been slimmed down and profiled to accept a range of suitable aftermarket rims, this is coupled to a 330x26mm disc.
Caliper # CP6637-4S0 & CP6637-5S0
Approx. £460 ea
Disc # CP3580-1180Cg8 & CP3580-1181 Cg8
List £244 ea
Bell # CP2494-2170
List £280 ea

Although the bells might suit the Si, the FN2 caliper bracket most likely will not!

There are other calipers and discs in our range that could suit but it’s all relevant to wheel clearances. www.apracing.com/products/performance_upgrades/road_and_aftermarket_brake_calipers.aspx

NOTE:-
We have nothing list for the 2014 FN2 Type R model as yet, but I’m told by one of our Honda race teams that the FN2 brakes swap over on the Euro models.


I have yet to have time to research what the measurements are on our Si's to see if these would fit. If anyone already has them, post 'em! Otherwise I'll get around to it eventually. And once again, it looks like it is the mounting bracket that probably wont fit, though it is nice to know they support our bolt pattern in their selection of rotors (even though the Stillen rep told me otherwise) and making kits for their Honda's when their competitors are not.

Thank you for the links @webby, and the clarification @axion_industries. The 12.9" 2 piece rotor 6 pot kit is what I was eyeing, and comparing to what other manufacturers have available. It's a shame we get no love from some of the best caliper manufacturers out there; even Brembo.
 
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Update:

I have heard from Rotora, they have a few options for the 9th Si:

upload_2016-6-27_12-10-18.png

If you wish for a 6-piston system with 2-piece disc system; it would be special order only. The price is $2,995 + shipping.

(The note on the rear calipers says it does not support the e-brake.)


My opinion is they are on the high end of the price range and they offer limited color options that are primarily painted, not anodized. Didn't find any bad reviews, but no raving ones either. Would be a solid but expensive choice.

So I moved on in my search and found R1Concepts. http://www.r1concepts.com/bbk_interactive/
Their prices are a little more reasonable, and they have a wider selection of caliper and rotor options - going up to 8 pistons - to choose from than most other manufacturers of their size. More importantly, at this level of cost they have what I expected to see everywhere but found nowhere else: All the color options you can imagine, and everything is included in the price! They also threw in a decent discount with my quote for doing all 4 wheels, and their rear calipers offer the option to keep the e-brake for a slight upcharge.

I am currently waiting on them to send me a template to see what I can fit behind my 18" HPD wheels. When that happens and after I see a forum update from a guy who just bought and installed the same kit on a different car, I will likely be pulling the trigger. My only concern is that this is a newer product and there are not many reviews out on it yet. They seem to have some sort of distant affiliation with StopTech's manufacturing process, either a split-off company or some StopTech engineers took their skills to a new company; their other products seem to have overwhelmingly good reviews, so I am hopeful.
 
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Yesterday I pulled the trigger on my BBK from R1Concepts. I was very impressed with their initiative to get a kit fit to my car, which was the biggest problem I ran into with other manufacturers not willing to take the time to engineer a mounting bracket to fit a car they haven't fit yet, which almost surprises me since there are so many Si's out there in comparison to some of the higher-end race cars on the market these kits are designed for. Build time is about 3 weeks, but as soon as I get them I will post pics and specs and prices.
 
Forgot to mention, they threw in some free brake fluid for my patience in dealing with their R&D department. Anybody have experience with ATE Type 200 "Amber" Dot 4 fluid? I had never heard of it until Friday. I was going to pick up some Motul RBF600 to replace the old fluid when I do the installation, but if this stuff is good I'll go with it, cuz you can't beat free.
 
ATE has a lower boiling point than the Motul. If you're going to track the car, Motul RBF600 is the better choice.
 
I did a quick search and found a good list of racing quality brake fluids. The ATE had a slightly lower boiling point than the Motul fluids, but not by much. How big is a big difference though? I can't say I am educated enough on the subject to know. I'm also guessing they aren't sending me enough free fluid to refill my entire system. Could I use the free stuff in an emergency mixing it with another Dot 4 fluid, or is it bad to mix fluids?

Here's a link to the list I mentioned, it's nice to see all the different fluids listed together.

https://www.lelandwest.com/brake-fluid-comparison-chart.cfm
 
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