2013 Civic "Premium Audio System" Navigation Stereo Upgrade

[JonnyRotten]

I picked up the subwoofer grille today. So now the subwoofer is protected in the trunk from any items I may place into the trunk. I would hate for anything such as luggage to hit the woofer and damage it.

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@Hillstones is it safe to assume that you removed the factory subwoofer and just left the grill over top of where the factory subwoofer was so that the sound from the upgraded sub goes through the old location of the sub?
Great post BTW.

 

[Hillstones]

@Hillstones is it safe to assume that you removed the factory subwoofer and just left the grill over top of where the factory subwoofer was so that the sound from the upgraded sub goes through the old location of the sub?
Great post BTW.

The OEM subwoofer was removed from the rear deck. It is shown in the photos with the rest of the OEM speakers and OEM amp. The entire rear deck was covered in dynamat and the new rear speakers are installed in the factory 6.5" locations. Removing the OEM subwoofer gave them a more flat surface to cover the deck with dynamat. The 8-inch "hole" from the old subwoofer is covered with dynamat material, so no sound goes through the old opening through the factory subwoofer grille in the rear deck. The new sub provides solid bass throughout the entire car without the need for a hole in the rear deck. The entire trunk was covered with dynamat as well, so the car is not "booming" from the outside either.

 

[QCFranky]

You are correct. Use the wiring diagram from this link, which identifies the factory amp input and output harnesses. http://9thcivic.com/forum/threads/2012-civic-audio-wiring-guide-pinouts-for-factory-radio.5916/

The 24-pin connector at the factory amplifier is the pre-amp input signal to the amp from the stereo head unit. Look at pins A5 and A17 which are the subwoofer positive and negative wires. Cut those wires from the harness and splice an RCA plug onto them. You can buy an RCA plug with spliced wiring here: http://www.crutchfield.com/p_136XDCLR2S/JL-Audio-XD-CLRAIC2-SW.html?tp=1694

A subwoofer is a mono channel. Since you are keeping the factory amp for the front and rear speakers, I assume you are buying a mono-channel amp for your subwoofer. The single channel amp will have one RCA input and one speaker output for the subwoofer. The subwoofer setting on the stereo will still control the subwoofer level since you are using the subwoofer output from the factory stereo. Hope that helps.

Thank you for your help. So for the RCA, I'm taking either the white or the red plug? What do I take for the Remote? Sorry for my questions, I just want to be sure. Thank you again

 

[ADExternal]

Would you know the Sub Preamp AC Voltage (@40hz or 60hz +0db) that the HU outputs? Since you got the navi it might be different.

 

[Hillstones]

Would you know the Sub Preamp AC Voltage (@40hz or 60hz +0db) that the HU outputs? Since you got the navi it might be different.

I don't know that information, but the OEM amps are the same for either Non-Navi and Navi, so the head units are likely identical.

 

[Hillstones]

Thank you for your help. So for the RCA, I'm taking either the white or the red plug? What do I take for the Remote? Sorry for my questions, I just want to be sure. Thank you again

The color does not matter because the subwoofer is a single channel. The remote lead is in the wiring diagram. You can probably splice into that one so the same lead turns on both amps.

 

[Bulkybear]

You are correct. Use the wiring diagram from this link, which identifies the factory amp input and output harnesses. http://9thcivic.com/forum/threads/2012-civic-audio-wiring-guide-pinouts-for-factory-radio.5916/

The 24-pin connector at the factory amplifier is the pre-amp input signal to the amp from the stereo head unit. Look at pins A5 and A17 which are the subwoofer positive and negative wires. Cut those wires from the harness and splice an RCA plug onto them. You can buy an RCA plug with spliced wiring here: http://www.crutchfield.com/p_136XDCLR2S/JL-Audio-XD-CLRAIC2-SW.html?tp=1694

A subwoofer is a mono channel. Since you are keeping the factory amp for the front and rear speakers, I assume you are buying a mono-channel amp for your subwoofer. The single channel amp will have one RCA input and one speaker output for the subwoofer. The subwoofer setting on the stereo will still control the subwoofer level since you are using the subwoofer output from the factory stereo. Hope that helps.

Did this actually work for you or are we talking theory? My understanding is that the signal going to the factory amp from the head unit uses balanced differential inputs and most aftermarket amps will not accept that signal. I know I was unable to get any signal from the pre amp harness and instead had to tap into the sub channel post amp. And consequently I did not have a full range signal going to my aftermarket amp due to the equalization of the factory amp (attenuates frequencies below 50hz). My conclusion was to get around the equalization of the factory amp you needed an aftermaket head unit.

 

[Hillstones]

Did this actually work for you or are we talking theory? My understanding is that the signal going to the factory amp from the head unit uses balanced differential inputs and most aftermarket amps will not accept that signal. I know I was unable to get any signal from the pre amp harness and instead had to tap into the sub channel post amp. And consequently I did not have a full range signal going to my aftermarket amp due to the equalization of the factory amp (attenuates frequencies below 50hz). My conclusion was to get around the equalization of the factory amp you needed an aftermaket head unit.

Yes, it works perfectly because I used a JL Audio amp, which accepts differential balanced outputs from a factory stereo without any conversion necessary. Infinity is the only other amp maker that has amps that can accept the differential balanced output without conversion. You likely had a problem because your aftermarket amp could not accept a differential balanced input. When using a compatible aftermarket amp, it can accept the pre-amp level outputs from the Premium head unit. The shop that did the installation removed the OEM amp and speakers and converted the wiring to RCA plugs for the JL Audio amp. You are correct in saying the factory amp screws up the equalization, which is true. Remove the factory amp and use a compatible aftermarket amp and you are good to go, with full range pre-amp signals from the Premium head unit.

 

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I don't know that information, but the OEM amps are the same for either Non-Navi and Navi, so the head units are likely identical.

Ah, so far I measured the preamps for subs output @ 60hz/+0db and it gave me .05v which is extremely weak for any HU.

Did this actually work for you or are we talking theory? My understanding is that the signal going to the factory amp from the head unit uses balanced differential inputs and most aftermarket amps will not accept that signal. I know I was unable to get any signal from the pre amp harness and instead had to tap into the sub channel post amp. And consequently I did not have a full range signal going to my aftermarket amp due to the equalization of the factory amp (attenuates frequencies below 50hz). My conclusion was to get around the equalization of the factory amp you needed an aftermaket head unit.

I would agree with you as well Bulky, but I believe the output is extremely weak since I was able to get signal from the 8pin sub harness i made at least you still get a rull range (at least up to 400hz). My solution is to integrate a line driver regardless of it being balanced or not since it will convert it.

Yes, it works perfectly because I used a JL Audio amp, which accepts differential balanced outputs from a factory stereo without any conversion necessary. Infinity is the only other amp maker that has amps that can accept the differential balanced output without conversion. You likely had a problem because your aftermarket amp could not accept a differential balanced input. When using a compatible aftermarket amp, it can accept the pre-amp level outputs from the Premium head unit. The shop that did the installation removed the OEM amp and speakers and converted the wiring to RCA plugs for the JL Audio amp. You are correct in saying the factory amp screws up the equalization, which is true. Remove the factory amp and use a compatible aftermarket amp and you are good to go, with full range pre-amp signals from the Premium head unit.

hmmmm, does Alpine (MRV-M500) have differential balanced inputs? It seems to amplify the preamp fine :?

 

[Hillstones]

According to Alpine's user manual for the MRV-M500, it mentions nothing about differential balanced inputs. It only mentions pre-amp level inputs or high-level speaker inputs. If the amp is working with the premium head unit with a direct connection, maybe it does accept the differential balanced inputs from the head unit. If you hop over to Crutchfield and look at the JL Audio 5-channel amps and the Infinity Kappa Five, they specifically mention differential balanced inputs for connection to virtually any car stereo head unit, including factory head units. That is why I chose the JL Audio amp because I knew it would be compatible with the Honda premium head unit. The Honda wiring diagram for the premium head unit and amp identify the outputs as pre-amp level outputs. I learned about the differential balanced outputs from Driveaccord.net, in which the 8th generation Accords with premium sound were using differential balanced outputs. The Civic wiring was similar, so I knew the Premium system in the Civic was also a differential balanced system. The shop used the wiring diagrams in my original post to install the JL Amp, speakers and sub.

 

[ADExternal]

According to Alpine's user manual for the MRV-M500, it mentions nothing about differential balanced inputs. It only mentions pre-amp level inputs or high-level speaker inputs. If the amp is working with the premium head unit with a direct connection, maybe it does accept the differential balanced inputs from the head unit. If you hop over to Crutchfield and look at the JL Audio 5-channel amps and the Infinity Kappa Five, they specifically mention differential balanced inputs for connection to virtually any car stereo head unit, including factory head units. That is why I chose the JL Audio amp because I knew it would be compatible with the Honda premium head unit. The Honda wiring diagram for the premium head unit and amp identify the outputs as pre-amp level outputs. I learned about the differential balanced outputs from Driveaccord.net, in which the 8th generation Accords with premium sound were using differential balanced outputs. The Civic wiring was similar, so I knew the Premium system in the Civic was also a differential balanced system. The shop used the wiring diagrams in my original post to install the JL Amp, speakers and sub.

The thing about it is, the amp works fine but not at its fullest potential since the preamp isnt giving it enough voltage. Hopefully youre getting your full 300rms from your amp for your sub, I think the JL amp you bought have a built in line driver. My sub system sounds great but I knew there was more potential, hopefully putting a RF-BLD give it what it needs.

 

[Hillstones]

The thing about it is, the amp works fine but not at its fullest potential since the preamp isnt giving it enough voltage. Hopefully youre getting your full 300rms from your amp for your sub, I think the JL amp you bought have a built in line driver. My sub system sounds great but I knew there was more potential, hopefully putting a RF-BLD give it what it needs.

Yes, the system sounds fantastic and the sub really rocks. If your Alpine amp is not giving the full potential, then maybe it is not compatible with differential balanced inputs. The JL amp is compatible so I know it is working properly.

 

[Bulkybear]

Well im glad it worked for you. Im not really one to chose my amp based off of my head unit. Id rather not deal with it. I would still swap the head unit first if i did it again so I could just run a set of rca's straight from head to amp lol. Call me old fashioned.

 

[QCFranky]

It's good to know about the balanced differential inputs, I didn't buy my amp yet. Im looking for Kicker 12CX600.1 So with an amp compatible with balanced differential inputs I don't need anything else? Thank you

 

[ADExternal]

Well im glad it worked for you. Im not really one to chose my amp based off of my head unit. Id rather not deal with it. I would still swap the head unit first if i did it again so I could just run a set of rca's straight from head to amp lol. Call me old fashioned.

I would so the same if I wasnt so stuborn.

It's good to know about the balanced differential inputs, I didn't buy my amp yet. Im looking for Kicker 12CX600.1 So with an amp compatible with balanced differential inputs I don't need anything else? Thank you

Well, you can go with what Hillstones recommend. Bulkybear and I both took different routes as well. I cant say my method works to the fullest yet until the Line Driver I order comes in. Luckly, its amazon prime so that will be tomorrow.

 

[Hillstones]

I would prefer to keep the OEM head unit because I like having the audio and Nav information on the i-MID screen, and I wanted to retain my factory XM tuner. It also eliminates the risk of theft of the stereo because no one steals OEM stereos. I am already running a set of RCAs straight from the head unit to the amp, the Premium head unit is unpowered with pre-amp output signals. It makes no difference if the shop had to splice RCA plugs to the factory wiring, just a little more extra work. I understand your preference with aftermarket stereos. I did all that back in college when factory stereos were not worth a damn. Factory stereos are far better than they were years ago. The poor equalization was caused by the factory amp, not the head unit, and that has been removed and replaced with the JL amp. I did choose the amp for compatibility with the head unit because I wanted it to work, and also because JL makes a good 5 channel amp which was small enough to fit under the seat for a nice installation. So I am glad the premium head unit worked perfectly with the JL amp without any line out converters, or any other issues. It is a great upgrade to do if you have the premium head unit. The standard stereo with the built-in 160-watt amp would need line out converters, or replace the stereo.

 

[Bulkybear]

Id just prefer not to limit myself to only certain amps or have to use line drivers or anything. I like aftermarket heads because they are actually designed to feed an aftermarket amp. To each his own though. I used a LOC on my sub channel for a long time.

 

[QCFranky]

The 24-pin connector at the factory amplifier is the pre-amp input signal to the amp from the stereo head unit. Look at pins A5 and A17 which are the subwoofer positive and negative wires. Cut those wires from the harness and splice an RCA plug onto them. You can buy an RCA plug with spliced wiring here: http://www.crutchfield.com/p_136XDCLR2S/JL-Audio-XD-CLRAIC2-SW.html?tp=1694

Just one more thing about the RCA plug coming from the A5 and A17 pins (- and +). Should I put a Y adapter to plug the RCA in both red and white input of the amp or it doesn't change anything ? Sorry if it's not clear and thanks again

 

[ADExternal]

Just one more thing about the RCA plug coming from the A5 and A17 pins (- and +). Should I put a Y adapter to plug the RCA in both red and white input of the amp or it doesn't change anything ? Sorry if it's not clear and thanks again

Depends on the amp some amps use both and sum the input, some amps (usually mono amp) have 2ch (L and R) but can accept a mono input, usually left. Its safe to have a Y adapter in either case but in one scenario it ill save you a few bucks if you dont need it.

 

[QCFranky]

Depends on the amp some amps use both and sum the input, some amps (usually mono amp) have 2ch (L and R) but can accept a mono input, usually left. Its safe to have a Y adapter in either case but in one scenario it ill save you a few bucks if you dont need it.

Thank you for your answers. I think im ready to begin now lol