Brakes smoking

Another update after two autocross sessions and two HPDE sessions at PIR... For street and autocross driving, the Carbotech XP10/XP8 combo was great and mostly overkill (if you can live with noise and dust). No more smoking pads with stupid spirited driving (though I've mostly quit that in favor of taking it to the track). Now the good/bad news. For HPDE, I had adequate braking with some fade, or possibly mount flex causing lots of pedal travel. The key here is that my braking levels were still adequate for the entirety of all 20 minute sessions. The bad news is that at the end of the second day I have no pad left. As in I'm metal on rotor now. I didn't expect this much wear this quickly. The autocross and small amount of street driving barely contributed, so basically I get one full day of track driving on a set ($200/per set). The longer pedal travel and increased pressure was also not inspiring.

The short of it is that I am going to upgrade to a BBK at this point to hopefully give me better confidence and better pad life. But if it's just an argument of braking capability, the stock brakes are amazing for what they are. I consider the "myth busted" that a BBK is necessary for HPDE on moderately higher horse cars and *DEFINITELY* a myth that it's needed for street driving. I was threshold braking from about 120mph->45mph, from 90->60, from 125->60, and several other lighter applications for 20 minutes at a time and they held in there, just eating the pads in the process and not giving me the pedal feel I'd like. All of this on crappy Napa blanks...

I'm currently leaning toward a StopTech BBK with the 328mm two-piece rotors. I'm hoping the increased surface area will give me better cooling and more pad/pad life, plus much better pedal feel. Stuff gets *HOT* down there!

I'm happy to hear any other opinions about which BBK I should consider. I'm not worried about the price point of the StopTech setup, willing to pay what it takes for a quality setup and some convenience of a ready to bolt up kit.
 
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If you're burning through carbotechs in a weekend something else is wrong, whether its the rotor/pad combo or improper bedding. I know plenty of guys including myself that are getting multiple weekends out of a set of pads easily, so at least 6-8 full track days and some of these are 500hp+ cars.
 
FRDRICE said:
If you're burning through carbotechs in a weekend something else is wrong, whether its the rotor/pad combo or improper bedding. I know plenty of guys including myself that are getting multiple weekends out of a set of pads easily, so at least 6-8 full track days and some of these are 500hp+ cars.
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Interesting. I'm not sure what else to say/add. I did follow the Carbotech bed in procedure when I first installed pads, drove it for several months before the track days after that (I drive very little), but felt I was getting good application... Rotors are inexpensive blanks, so I wouldn't expect any unreasonable wear from them. There were some guys from a local racing/performance shop at the track (they did my corner balance/alignment a while back) and the primary guy I worked with before was astounded I was out there on stock calipers. They race Hondas, so have some experience... I told him the brakes would be fine (I had one day under my belt, so I was pretty confident). After I emailed him to tell him I'd wasted the pads, his response was of course that he wasn't surprised! Also no self-interest from him in that they're not interested in selling me parts and I'm installing myself.

I'm definitely getting a lot of heat into everything. The wheels were hot enough to melt the glue on my wheel weights at my first track day...

Maybe I could call up Carbotech and ask them some questions before I pull the trigger on a BBK. Right now I'm getting to ride my bicycle as a primary form of transportation until I figure out what I'm going to do about this! ;-)
 
Street use for race pads will cause more wear to rotors/pads than on track sometimes. I wouldn't run them on the street. Swap them out at the track and have a set of dedicated track pads/rotors.

I get 3 weekends out of a set of cheap rotors, at most. PFC pads will last 6-8 weekends. 2pc floating rotors will last a season. (12+ weekends) Advanced/instructor groups.
 
So I pulled the pads this morning, thinking I'd just swap my factory rotors and pads back in again... The photos show what I found...


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The pads on both driver and passenger side have similar wear. Looks like the dust boots are gone in the calipers too (no surprise, it must have been amazingly hot!).

Just to be clear, I don't left-foot brake, I brake 98% in a straight line (slight trail braking in a couple places)...

I'm going to need to replace the calipers at this point regardless (or rebuild), so I'm thinking why not upgrade? Any reasons *not* to upgrade? I'm thinking StopTech 4-piston with 328mm two-piece rotors. Not sure on pads yet. I don't care about classes and all that, for me this is about fun and I'm so modded already it doesn't matter... Honestly, those pictures scare me. They're also a testament to how good the RBF600 fluid is!

Also, any diagnosis as to what went wrong? I believe jrotax when he says I should get more time from things if I treat them right/get a different pad/rotor combo... But this is pretty extreme.
 
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Indeed, I put in my order for a StopTech kit today. Since I'd have to replace calipers anyway, I figured it's a no brainer... Plus side, my lap times were a full 2-3 seconds faster than a 3 series Dinan with more than 400 crank horse... But he didn't melt his brakes! ;-)
 
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webby said:
that's insanity. I've never seen something like that
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Yeah, I wouldn't have guessed I could inflict that much destruction and still have any stopping power... I think the last of the pad must have went about the time I was getting off track... I'm hoping the StopTech setup is better for me. I'm thinking I'll also take Mr. jrotax's advice and get a second set of rotors and pads for track use with the BBK... I will probably try it once with the street pads that come with the BBK just to see what happens. Unless someone convinces me that's a bonehead move! ;-)

In other news, I rode my bike (as in bicycle) to Costco today... That garnered a few looks while I was loading up laundry detergent, a couple towels, some shampoo, body wash... Maybe it's time to learn to ride a motorcycle!
 
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