Changing manual transmission fluid

Discussion in 'Mechanical Problems & Technical Chat' started by Bruce Bartlow, Sep 29, 2012.

  1. webby
    • Staff
    • 2020 Toys For Tots

    webby Administrator

    Messages:
    52,108
    Monk likes this.
  2. Monk

    Monk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,218
    Location:
    SW Virginia
    Vehicle Model:
    2012 Civic EX
    Body Style:
    Coupe FG3:ASM
  3. Bruce Bartlow

    Bruce Bartlow Late apex everything

    Messages:
    1,408
    Location:
    Sacramento, CA
    Vehicle Model:
    SI
    Body Style:
    Coupe
    A splendid idea my good man! My older research is generally too specialized... reports focusing on soot and TBN (for factory equipment) that don't apply to most here. I will, however, do something along those lines with a 2012 SI, if you're willing to wait a bit.

    It's worth mentioning that my personal interest is in analyzing the physical properties of new oil, especially as it relates to extreme pressure. For example, there is a standard wear test called the "four ball wear test", often done in accordance with strict lab conditions as outlined by ASTM 4172d. I remember looking at the difference between Amsoil's wear scar versus Mobil 1's wear scar a few years back. The test clearly showed Mobil 1 allowing 3 times more wear than Amsoil did, which obviously had significant implications for engine wear -- at least those engines subject to extreme pressure. That's why I was so impressed recently with Mobil 1's EP (Extended Performance) version... because it was neck and neck with Amsoil. It might have come in second place but it was a close second.

    Yesterday I bought some of that Mobil 1 EP (at WalMart, no less, $26.97 for the 5 qt container) as well as the new Pennzoil Platinum for the purpose of testing them in my new SI over the next year. I am also interested in adding Pennzoil Ultra (which couldn't be found) and LubriMoly to my inventory for testing. Both of the Pennzoil products have been advertised heavily of late, saying they're much better than other synthetics at controlling deposit formation. We'll see about that. In any event, let's test those new oils against my tried and true Amsoil and the regular Mobil 1. And perhaps others will be interested in submitting their own oil for analysis. Anything that helps us "vtec the snot" out of our engines (according to one spirited driver among us) and still have those engines outlast a Toyota would be a good thing.

    One popular lab is: www.blackstone-labs.com
     
    Flippercon and webby like this.
  4. webby
    • Staff
    • 2020 Toys For Tots

    webby Administrator

    Messages:
    52,108
    I'm very familiar with blackstone and bobistheoilguy. Very excited to hear that you're going to be doing some labs on various oils
     
  5. mclovin_FG4

    mclovin_FG4 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    421
    Bump back to life on account of webby linking it. I'm relatively new to K series motors (this is my first one) but in my old B series I always bought GM synchromesh (from a GM dealer) does anybody know if this is not good for the K series Tranny?
     
    Flippercon likes this.
  6. Bruce Bartlow

    Bruce Bartlow Late apex everything

    Messages:
    1,408
    Location:
    Sacramento, CA
    Vehicle Model:
    SI
    Body Style:
    Coupe
    ___________________________________
    WARNING WARNING!!! Re-read mikey's entire post. I'm a HUGE Amsoil fan (normally) but I am having the same experience with Amsoil Synchromesh MTF.

    Here's the scoop: After running Amsoil MTF for just 4000 miles I became concerned about the shifting characteristics of my nice new 2012 limited slip. Somehow the tranny already felt compromised. So I pulled the Amsoil fluid and sent a sample to Oil Analyzers Inc, a firm that gets a lot of business from Amsoil customers. Another sample will go to Blackstone. First, I was shocked at what the sample looked like. Black, and almost watery.... like engine oil that had broken down.. bad. You see, tranny fluid should remain relatively clear (amber colored) because there is no combustion process to contaminate it. But in this case it looked like diesel oil after just 4,000 miles. Can't wait for the lab results to confirm it.

    So the Honda fluid is back in... and I will test that after roughly 5000 - 6000 miles, i.e., after returning from the Dragon meet. In any event, I have a strong feeling that MTF's will need to be changed MUCH more often, regardless of brand.
     
    webby, mikey6p and Monk like this.
  7. mikey6p

    mikey6p Members Only

    Messages:
    499
    Location:
    Lakewood, CA
    Vehicle Model:
    Civic Si
    Body Style:
    Sidan
    THANK YOU Bruce!

    I have been extremely curious to see a Blackstone on Amsoil in the new Si transmissions. I really didn't want to do it myself because I did not want to jeopardize the investment I had made into transmission overhaul.

    Every time I have changed to Honda MTF it has come out either clear or slightly amber. When I had used Amsoil back in the day, I had the same outcome as you, it came out VERY thin and dark.

    I am still hypothesizing that the Si transmission does not like Amsoil.

    To have a somewhat fair comparison, I will dump my current fill of Honda MTF at 4000 miles and send it to Blackstone. My car is an '08, but it should be a somewhat fair comparison of the two MTF's
     
    webby likes this.
  8. Jonathong

    Jonathong Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    388
    Location:
    Delano, California
    Vehicle Model:
    Civic SI
    Body Style:
    Sedan
    Hmm nice to know when I need to change the tranny fluid.
     
  9. 9000 RPM

    9000 RPM Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    308
    Location:
    Brooklyn NY
    Honda MTF is very good, just change it often relative to OEM recommendations.
     
  10. 07TLX
    • Supporting Member

    07TLX Supporting Member

    Messages:
    4,436
    Location:
    Somewhere in SEPA
    Vehicle Model:
    Pontiac
    Body Style:
    G8 GT
    Try Redline gear oil for the transmission.... Running it for almost 100k miles and no issues and my blackstone analysis has been spot on clean except for once.....but my input shaft bearing was toast at 138,000 miles...
     
  11. Bruce Bartlow

    Bruce Bartlow Late apex everything

    Messages:
    1,408
    Location:
    Sacramento, CA
    Vehicle Model:
    SI
    Body Style:
    Coupe
    Hey Mikey, Can't thank you enough for posting your MTF concerns. I still haven't heard back from Oil Analyzers on the sample I sent them. But as I said, they are somewhat tied to Amsoil. If my sample was bad, as I believe it was, there are serious implications for Amsoil. That's why I saved part of my sample for Blackstone... not knowing if Amsoil would come clean.

    But thanks again.... you saved my transmission from a premature death. I owe ya!

    _____________________________


    ________________________
     
  12. Bruce Bartlow

    Bruce Bartlow Late apex everything

    Messages:
    1,408
    Location:
    Sacramento, CA
    Vehicle Model:
    SI
    Body Style:
    Coupe
    Thanks for the Redline recco. Will definitely give them a try and share the lab results.


     
  13. 07TLX
    • Supporting Member

    07TLX Supporting Member

    Messages:
    4,436
    Location:
    Somewhere in SEPA
    Vehicle Model:
    Pontiac
    Body Style:
    G8 GT
    If you want you can see how the shifts feel on my car this week
     
    Bruce Bartlow and webby like this.
  14. Bruce Bartlow

    Bruce Bartlow Late apex everything

    Messages:
    1,408
    Location:
    Sacramento, CA
    Vehicle Model:
    SI
    Body Style:
    Coupe
    ________________
    Likewise, amigo! Thanks.
     
  15. Bruce Bartlow

    Bruce Bartlow Late apex everything

    Messages:
    1,408
    Location:
    Sacramento, CA
    Vehicle Model:
    SI
    Body Style:
    Coupe
    Here is my Amsoil MTF Analysis. Only 4000 miles were on this fluid... but already "critical" (that means bad) levels of aluminum. This is compelling evidence that Amsoil's MTF is not well designed for the limited slip.
     

    Attached Files:

    webby likes this.
  16. squiggy
    • Staff
    • 2020 Toys For Tots

    squiggy Cartographer

    Messages:
    11,183
    Location:
    Michiana
    Vehicle Model:
    '12 Civic Si
    Body Style:
    DBP II Coupe
  17. squiggy
    • Staff
    • 2020 Toys For Tots

    squiggy Cartographer

    Messages:
    11,183
    Location:
    Michiana
    Vehicle Model:
    '12 Civic Si
    Body Style:
    DBP II Coupe
    @Bruce Bartlow

    Are you going to forward that along to AmSoil?
     
    Flippercon and webby like this.
  18. 07TLX
    • Supporting Member

    07TLX Supporting Member

    Messages:
    4,436
    Location:
    Somewhere in SEPA
    Vehicle Model:
    Pontiac
    Body Style:
    G8 GT
    Time for Redline fluid man
     
  19. webby
    • Staff
    • 2020 Toys For Tots

    webby Administrator

    Messages:
    52,108
    this ^

    4k miles.... seems unreasonably bad results.
     

Share This Page