forget slamming it lets talk stopping...

DiogoDC

DiogoDC

Well-Known Member
339
179
woodbridge
Vehicle Model
si
Body Style
sedan
so i wanna upgrade my pads and rotors and likely brake fluid...
seems like not much info is out there seeing as ive done some reading for the past few days alone

so basically i want some input FROM PEOPLE THAT HAVE IT INSTALLED
im not finding any info listed for hawk hp+ pads for the FRONT i really wanna run a full hawk setup seeing as a lot of people say nothing but good about them and they are reasonably priced.

my second option would be going the full ebc route

or then stoptech if all else fails (newerish company not really a huge reputation)

any input would help fior setups available (sticky?)
 
Are you having issues with your current stock setup? Are you looking to get anything in particular out of them? Or are you looking for a BBK style setup for looks?

The stock system is plenty strong. Usually a good pad upgrade and better fluid can do a lot if you are tracking and getting brake fade. The ultimate limit of your brakes is your tires. You should be able to lock up or at least activate the ABS system with the stock pads and dent tires. Hence, the tires are slipping before you run out of brake.

The current SI has the old TSX brake calipers on them. The TSX caliper and heavier rotor are a very effective upgrade for the 8th gen civic that were saddled with a too small brake system. Track guys were overwhelming the stock system on those cars pretty easily. The new 2012+ civics have a very capable brake system. A good pad and fluid upgrade should give you all the brake you need. Again, upgraded pads and fluid are more to deal with heat better, not necessarily more brake force.


Hawk pads aren't bad. I had HPS for a while. They squeaked a little. The stock pads are the best balance of low dust, no noise, decent life, and average stopping ability. They do not deal with heat well. The best performance pad I have ever driven in my life is easily the AXXIS Ultimates. Wicked bite, no fade except in extreme circumstances, very very dusty though. Insanely dirty pads. No noise.

I'm currently running a set of Project Mu B-Force Sport pads. So far they have been more noisy than OEM, more noise than the AXXIS, less noise than the HPS. They are dustier than the Hawk and OEM pads but much much less than the Axxis ultimates.


Don't waste your time on the EBC pads. I know a few people who have not had good luck with their pads. I have run their rotors before and thought they were not bad at all. Current setup is brembo blanks. In comparison the fit and finish was better on the Brembo rotors but I haven't noticed any difference when driving in terms of feel/noise/etc...


If you really want a BBK, just know, they look great but are not going to add braking force to your car. The idea behind a BBK is to add heat capacity. They are able to shed heat better and hold up to track levels of heat/abuse better. If you are just getting them for looks thats fine but don't expect them to magically transform the feel of your braking system. If you are running a poor tire choice you can still lock them up just as easy as you could with the stock system. Also since the cars all have ABS reaching the threshold for activation may happen quicker but does not mean you are getting more "force" out of them. Altering the piston size will also affect the way the pedal feels. If your master cylinder is designed to move enough fluid to activate a certain piston bore, changing to a larger one may end up requiring you to push the pedal further to get the same force as you did before. You have to move more fluid to move the larger piston in the caliper. This does mean you will have more brake modulation control but again, if you can't stand a soft pedal this might be counter productive for you.


I know thats a lot to read but hopefully it gives you some good info. Let me know the direction you are wanting to go or if you have specific questions.


Rotor advice: Stick to blank rotors if you want the best brake performance. Slotted second, and just stay away from drilled rotors.
 
Thanks! I'm running Michelin pilot super sports. Been looking at possibly getting the HPD racing pads from a friend. He claims they atop really well. Just the whole rotor thing has be scratching my head. I really want dimpled or slotted but now you clarified where the weak point is on the stock braking system. I'm swapping fluid and pads as soon as I can but stock rotors are already scored pretty badly at only 30,000 km with pretty moderate use
 
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Thats a great set of tires! Those HPD pads are probably pretty aggressive but I bet they do work good. Good pads, fluid and any decent rotor and your brake system should be good to go.

Get yourself a good set of blank rotors. They perform the best. A lot of the "advantages" of slotted, drilled, and dimpled rotors is that they allow for better out gassing from the pads. However, that's not really the case anymore. Way back in the 50's & 60's this was an issue but modern pad compounds are so different you will not have that happening. People used to drive on bias ply tires and those have been gone for as long as those old pads. Race cars and porsches that run drilled rotors are doing so on massive caliper setups and carbon ceramic brakes. It's not just a drilled $150 set of rotors like you'll find for your civic. A lot of it is weight savings and their performance expectations are pretty different than your average driver.

If you do want a set of slotted rotors for looks, and thats all they are, for looks, then get them. I advise staying away from anything that reduces rotor surface area as it will take away from the pad contact and braking ability. Most drilled rotors crack easily around the holes and aren't manufactured well. You can get good drilled rotors but the cost is really really high. They are another "just for looks" sort of thing but are generally detrimental to braking.

I ran a set of slotted rotors cause I liked the way they looked. I know they weren't as good as a set of blanks but hey, I wanted a little bit of bling factor! As long as you know what you're getting, buy the ones you like, just don't buy cheap drilled ones! hahaha unless you just have to have them.




As for why Porsche/Ferrari/Corvette/etc. all have slotted or drilled rotors, it's because the cars weigh more than your civic does, and they're traveling much faster than your civic. If you look at braking, all you're doing is removing kinetic energy from the vehicle Kinetic Energy (KE)= (1/2) x (mass) x (velocity squared). Because the velocity is squared, a marginally faster car has a lot more kinetic energy. A much faster car has a literal sh*tload more kinetic energy than your Civic would. In order to remove all that energy, they need to use unique designs and materials that aren't necessary on a regular car.
 
Some places will not turn slotted/drilled rotors if they get warped. Ever have the steering wheel/brake pedal shake a bit during braking? You can usually get rid of that by having the rotors turned. Shops tend to shy away from turning slotted/drilled due to machining issues.
 
I have the EBC blank rotors and EBC Red Stuff brake pads on my 13 FB6 and my only complaint is the noise but I love the feel of how she brakes now. I will be upgrading to crossed drilled rotors soon.
 
Its not worth upgrading breaking system if not needed unless you got/going to get F/I. OEM works very good in my case
 
I can also recommend Carbotech pads. I'm running XP10/XP8 front/back. My car does sound like a dump truck and the pads dust like crazy, but they seem to handle my driving well thus far. I'm just on cheap Napa blank rotors. Two track days next week, so I'll see how they do under extreme conditions...
 
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I've noticed that when I'm driving aggressively and being pretty hard on the brakes they start shaking and vibrating the car (kind of like a warped rotor does) when I hit the brakes after that point. It goes away after they cool down. Why does this happen anyways? Will a pad upgrade get rid of this issue?
 
Bulkybear said:
I've noticed that when I'm driving aggressively and being pretty hard on the brakes they start shaking and vibrating the car (kind of like a warped rotor does) when I hit the brakes after that point. It goes away after they cool down. Why does this happen anyways? Will a pad upgrade get rid of this issue?
Click to expand...

Pads probably not. Its most likely "warped" brake rotors. They rotor itself isn't really warped, you've just got pad material deposits causing high spots that you feel. It is strange that it only happens when they get hot but that is the only thing I can think of that would cause that. If the rotors are still in good shape overall and have a lot of life left in them you can just get them turned and machined/lathed flat again. That should solve the issue for you. Make sure and bed the pads in again if you get this done. Same with replacing any parts. Changing the pads alone probably won't fix it though. Changing rotors, most likely.


derekfriedrice said:
Would steel brake lines improve performance/feel of the braking?
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Like flightmaster said, they will give a bit of a firmer pedal feel. However, the one thing no one ever mentions with braided steel lines is that they are meant to be replaced every year or maybe two. The rubber lines are engineered to last a long time. The issue with the steel lines is that it is just a rubber line with a braided sleeve over it. Dirt and debris gets inside the sleeve and rubs against the rubber line. You won't be able to see the wear happening and catastrophic brake failure can and does occur with the stainless lines from this. I know there are people who have run them for years without issue but it is something to be aware of. They are a high performance "racing" part and like most parts for racing, they are expected to be a wear item and be inspected or replaced on a pretty regular basis.

Brake pedal feel can be improved with the stainless lines but not brake performance. Your tires and ABS system are the limits of your braking ability and they will dictate wheel lock more than your foot. Change your fluid and bleed the system well. That should help improve pedal feel a bit. Brake fluid is hygroscopic, meaning it absorbs moisture from the atmosphere over time. The older the fluid, the more water in it, and the spongier the pedal will get. New high temp fluid is a great place to start for cheap.

ATE Type200 is a good choice without breaking the bank. ($15 from Tirerack) It also doesn't absorb moisture as quickly as other high performance fluids. Unless you are wanting to change fluid every year. Motul RBF600 is popular but needs to be swapped annually. The ATE fluid can be in for a couple years. Stock fluid, I mean, some people never change it.
 
Nix said:
Stock fluid, I mean, some people never change it.
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I never changed the stock fluid in my last Civic. I had it for 9.5 years with 125,000 miles. Original rotors as well. Stopped just fine. :hiding:
 
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squiggy said:
I never changed the stock fluid in my last Civic. I had it for 9.5 years with 125,000 miles. Original rotors as well. Stopped just fine. :hiding:
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I never changed the fluid in my 97 civic with over 200k. I have since changed the fluid since I took most of the brake system apart to clean and upgrade it. I'm also considering investing in speed bleeders since its now a weekend/ track car and I know I'm going to be messing with the brakes pretty frequently. Makes it a one man job since I never have an assistant to push the pedal for me.
 
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Flightmaster127 said:
I never changed the fluid in my 97 civic with over 200k. I have since changed the fluid since I took most of the brake system apart to clean and upgrade it. I'm also considering investing in speed bleeders since its now a weekend/ track car and I know I'm going to be messing with the brakes pretty frequently. Makes it a one man job since I never have an assistant to push the pedal for me.
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I bought bleeders, but have yet to install them. I was waiting until it was time to do some brake work.
 
squiggy said:
I bought bleeders, but have yet to install them. I was waiting until it was time to do some brake work.
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Considering the car has been on jack stands since December I think I can make time for my brake work. Just as soon as I get around to installing the ball joints, adjusting the new suspension, replacing the transmission, breaking in the new clutch, and getting a professional tune.
 
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