Oil change 10,000 miles

I drive my Si pretty hard.... Already at 20% and only at 6k, little overdue but yea doing it on Thursday
 
Sikid said:
I drive my Si pretty hard.... Already at 20% and only at 6k, little overdue but yea doing it on Thursday
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You're going to do it yourself with 10w 30 or leave the first oil change to Honda, when they'll put in 0w 20 for you? Just curious where you landed with all of the advice here.
 
I'm probably taking mine in in mid June when it will be one year regardless.I will probably be around 6500 miles but a year with FF oil should be sufficient. I go about 5000 with my 04 and the oil still looks pretty good,only 61k so I'm not going synthetic yet, but will someday.
 
bobshur said:
There is a blend for sure ( honda oil).
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This is true,... honda makes a blend. Unfortunately, the msrp on it is $7.89 a quart. Most would probably just buy almost any synthetic for considerably less cost.
 
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What a lot of people fail to realize is that not only has oil technology come a long way, but engine managment has as well. Even been behind an old truck and your eyes start burning? Carburators were good at getting hte engines to run and when tuned right ran quite well. Over time they would literally dump fuel into the engine. This washes past the rings and down into the oil pan. This then would eventually vaporize if driven long enough. Those short drives to the store and sunday drivers were the worst. This was the reason for the 3000 mile oil changes. You ever pull the dipstick on an older car that hasn't had regular service? You can literallysmell the fuel. Cars that dont get driven on a long enough drive and up to operating temp, then shut off are really not being treated well. New cheap oil is better than old contaminated oil. Go to a run down cheapo lot and pull a dipstick. Take a whiff and see what you smell. If it smells like fuel, it was most likely not maintained properly. Me, Im going to go with the Honda recomended oil change intervals and with a synthetic. Probably from the Honda dealer. Not that I can't do my own, but for the fact that if there is a problem, its on them.
 
Sikid said:
Its just that 10k seems alot to mee for such thin oil and not changing it for 10 k for a long time, how much is it really protecting my engine? especially for that long and if you are driving it hard. and since these new advances in motor oil does that mean older cars can now go longer without an oil change too? Because I truly do think 10k is a lot and the reason I say 10k is because that's what the Honda salesman said how long every oil change is, is it a reason to have you come in 8 years later for a brand new car because your engine got ruined?

Also I remembered seeing somewhere where a car one year had a certain type of motor oil and then bam the next year or so(same engine in the car still) they changed the type of oil the vehicle requires so ??? I'll try to look where I found this to show you guys
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Wow -- look at all the fun I missed while gone last week!

Ok, first step -- let's establish that the continued use of any oil (regular or synthetic... and their various grades) is perfectly acceptable as long as it meets the minimum requirements of the manufacturer AND continues to perform within acceptable lubricant parameters (such as oxidation and TBN) and that proven engine wear -- determined by objective spectrographic analysis -- remains minimal. Can we agree on those two conditions? For now i'd like to assume that nobody is going to contest the minimum requirements of a manufacturer in order to protect the warranty. But it's also true that a warranty doesn't last forever.

That leaves us with discussing an oil's performance. So, if we can demonstrate than a lubricant is still performing well, the question on everybody's mind is "why change it".... because of habit? Peace of mind? Because it's cheap?

Put another way, is there anything more important than whether an oil continues to do its intended job well?
 
About 20w oil versus 30w oil. Most of the better lubricant companies will publish the "Typical Technical Properties" of the various lubricants they sell, although you might have to do some digging to get those numbers. Next time you evaluate an oil check out its Four Ball Wear Test results, one of the better ways to determine an oil's ability to protect against engine wear. Below (attached) you'll see that Amsoil's 20W oil test came in at .35mm, which is considerably better than most of its competitors 30W oils -- even 50w oils in some cases. In fact, Amsoil's new 20W even outperforms their own 30w oils from a few years ago. I wouldn't have believed it myself... but these are standardized tests done by independent labs.

Bottom line? Initially 20w oils were developed to meet CARB (in CA) and improve gas mileage. But over time and millions in research later, these lighter oils are now as tough as nails. Mobil1 Extended Performance has also turned in some very good Four Ball numbers... on one test they were listed #2 behind Amsoil. In another test, unfortunately, the same oil (different batch apparently, a year later) was on the absolute bottom of the 8 - 10 lubricants tested, with engine wear over 3 times that allowed by Amsoil. So i'm a little concerned about the production consistency of M1 and M1 extended.

btw: In my 2.4 Accord i'm currently running M1 Extended 5w-20 and will publish the lab results after 10,000 miles. For an oil rated "15,000 miles" I expect good results... but we'll see how good. In my 2.4 SI i'm running Amsoil 5w-20 (rated for 25,000 miles or 1 year) and will publish the lab results from that oil after 10,000 miles as well. In both cases i will change the oil filter at 6 months or 5,000 miles just to be on the safe side and to comply with the warranty. At the end of 10,000 miles I will likely change out the M1 but keep the Amsoil in service another 10,000 miles. The evidence in support of the extended drain intervals (for both oils) and further use of the Amsoil will be very strong. If anything, i might be changing the M1 too soon... but i'll let the Blackstone Labs make the call on what's left of the oil... which is best determined by the oxidation level and TBN.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/
is a good place to see a few lab reports while you're waiting...
 

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Just what I've heard from the service dept:
Don't change until the Oil life is at 15% you can check under maintenance info on the iMID. I actually went to go get my oil changed for the first time at around 6,000 miles, but the service department said that it's better to let it get all the way down to 15% for that first oil change. After that, I'm not sure what the recommended percentage is, but they said due to difference in driving habits, the oil life % is more accurate than mileage for determining oil changes. Again, I'm not too sure on the best answer, just wanted to let you all know what the service dept told me.
 
VNPP said:
Just what I've heard from the service dept:
Don't change until the Oil life is at 15% you can check under maintenance info on the iMID. I actually went to go get my oil changed for the first time at around 6,000 miles, but the service department said that it's better to let it get all the way down to 15% for that first oil change. After that, I'm not sure what the recommended percentage is, but they said due to difference in driving habits, the oil life % is more accurate than mileage for determining oil changes. Again, I'm not too sure on the best answer, just wanted to let you all know what the service dept told me.
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Some have had that factory oil fill lab tested -- and it's not your regular oil. Turns out there's lots of extra moly in there (to name just one thing) an ingredient which would be of long term benefit to the engine as it binds to the internal parts. So immediately we can see why the Service Departments has been told to keep it in there. I don't know all the details... but was told the same thing by my dealer.
 
There is a high count of molybdenum from grease/lube used in the engine assembly. A lot of people who have had oil analysis done on their first oil change showed high levels of moly in the oil. That seems to be the source of the rumors that they used special break-in oil.

from wiki -

Molybdenum disulfide (MoS2) is used as a solid lubricant and a high-pressure high-temperature (HPHT) antiwear agent. It forms strong films on metallic surfaces and is a common additive to HPHT greases — in the event of a catastrophic grease failure, a thin layer of molybdenum prevents contact of the lubricated parts. It also has semiconducting properties with distinct advantages over traditional silicon or graphene in electronics applications. MoS2 is also used as a catalyst in hydrocracking of petroleum fractions containing nitrogen, sulfur and oxygen.
 
webby said:
There is a high count of molybdenum from grease/lube used in the engine assembly. A lot of people who have had oil analysis done on their first oil change showed high levels of moly in the oil. That seems to be the source of the rumors that they used special break-in oil.

from wiki -

Molybdenum disulfide (MoS2) is used as a solid lubricant and a high-pressure high-temperature (HPHT) antiwear agent. It forms strong films on metallic surfaces and is a common additive to HPHT greases — in the event of a catastrophic grease failure, a thin layer of molybdenum prevents contact of the lubricated parts. It also has semiconducting properties with distinct advantages over traditional silicon or graphene in electronics applications. MoS2 is also used as a catalyst in hydrocracking of petroleum fractions containing nitrogen, sulfur and oxygen.
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Yes, i recall seeing that discussion. In fact, Bob has an exceptionally good discussion of Moly in general... and i wonder whether Moly isn't the only additive that we should use (if any) on a regular basis. (At the same time, i hate to second-guess millions spent on a proven formula)

And while i'm in the guessing mode, i still wonder whether Honda uses a special factory fill. Based on the discussion of the assembly process, perhaps not. Yet, the dealers seem to have been 'told something' about leaving the factory fill in...and i can't think of any other explanation.
 
I know some of you use a 0w instead of a 5w. That's fine... as long as you keep the following in mind: A 5w-20 oil is will last longer than a 0w20 oil. That's because the wider the viscosity band the more VI improvers have been used. VI stands for Viscosity Index. These VI modifiers are the most delicate components of any multi-grade oil. Some describe the VI degradation process as lighter components (VI improvers) burning off.... others describe the process as a chemical "shearing" process. http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/1327/viscosity-index-improvers But the result is the same --------- Once VI modifiers are compromised the oil will not thicken properly. If an oil doesn't thicken once exposed to higher temperatures, you essentially have a 0w or 5w protecting your engine, not the 20 or 30 you thought you had.

For those who prefer extended drain intervals using a 5w -20 or 10w-30 (if you can) is better than using a 0w-20 or 5w-30. The tighter the viscosity band the better.
 
At the expense of startup protection/mileage?
 
Just for reference, when I had my 2010 EX, the dealer turned me away two different times when I went to go get my oil changed even though the sticker they put on my car was due but the Maintenance Minder wasn't at <15% yet.

I have 1313 miles on my SI now so still a long ways to go before an oil change but I was planning to take the car to a different dealer (that one was terrible anyways) and get a change every 5k or so. I remember I used to freak out if I missed my every 3k in my old Volvo, used to do that one every 3k or less. (Granted it had an oil leak at one point -- still have like 6 quarts of spare fill oil sitting in my garage lol)
 
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