Premium Gas or Mid Grade??

Adam said:
O.K. so this is only for those that may want to read this - premium fuel users are absolutely passionate about their beliefs and that is O.K. - I also believe the Si does slightly better on premium and evne I use it whenever I expect some sporty driving - BUT my experience is that the car also runs quite comfortably well on regular (89 octane). I have never felt or noticed any power loss nor felt any low rev throttle hesitation or ever heard any metallic pinging. Sure I may only have 190 hp instead of 200 hp; but if I was to take 3 cars and fill one with regular, the other with mid-grade and the last one with premium and asked 10 drivers to drive them on alternate days (not back to back) - I doubt that they will guess correctly which car has what fuel.

I have prepared a very detailed spreadsheet of my fuel usage as I really wanted to measure the differences - but unfortuanelty I can, so far, determine nothing from all this as the results are all over the place. [I think the biggest difference is just how full I top up the tank - not as consistently as I had hoped.]

So my running average on premium so far is 34.6mpg and on regular its 32.7mpg - BUT most of my premium run milage is on long trips in the USA, where premium is so terribly cheap, and my regular fueled milage is mostly on daily commutes to work in the dreaded Toronto traffic. [Yesterday Premium in Toronto was $5.48 per gallon, a full 13% higher than regular. The most that I have paid in the US for premium is $3.69 per gallon and it was only 5.7% more than regular - an absolute bargain!] I might possibly get a 5% milage improvement on running Premium but I am very sure I will not see a 13% improvement to make my premium cost worthwhile.

So this is very much a win - win situation: the magic of these fabulous Honda engines. The Si runs quite well on any grade higher than 87. I am quite sure its better on premium, I have no doubt about this, but its quite acceptable on even regular (in my experience so far). Is there any other car out there that can match the performance AND economy of an Si? If there is some other car that can match this, I have yet to come across it. My total average consumption to date is 32.8mpg.

I have really been trying to measure accelleration pulls in 6th gear on 30 - 50mph and then 50 to 70mph increments with the different fuels; but let me assure you - it is not as easy as I thought (how difficult can it be with a digital speedo?) On public roads it just seems that everyone has to cut in front of me and slow down to spoil a test run! To date my fastest run sequence has surprisingly been on regular gas - BUT I am the first to put it down to experimental error, atmospheric conditions or just me not having stabilized at the start speed or something - its not that easy on public roads - trust me!

Happy motoring!
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Most of us run premium for a variety of reasons: 1.) In the US it's not that much more; 2) Maybe we don't drive that much so it's not a financial consideration 3.) There IS a trade off with MPG so the savings are only part of what you think... 4.) There is some risk of engine damage the closer you get to 87 or below. 5.) Performance is better with 91.

But I also don't get bent out of shape when people need to save a buck... or several thousand. For big mileage drivers (20,000/yr) it can amount to $1,000/yr. That's $10,000 over the course of 10 years....(think about that) ... almost half the price of a new $22,000 SI in 2012. (I paid $22,400 just last month) Premium gas is not better gas... it's just has better anti knock characteristics, something that's important in higher compression engines. For those who sit in traffic or limp from stop light to stop light, I can't blame you for occasionally slumming it at the pump. We love our SI's... but they are not six figure machines. Even using 87 will not invalidate the warranty. It's only "less than 87" that the manual explicitly warns against.

Still, premium is what's recommended and that's what we 'should' use. :vtec:
 
For big mileage drivers (20,000/yr) it can amount to $1,000/yr.
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20,000 miles averaging 30mpg = 666 gallons of gas x .20 cents over regular = $133/yr
20,000 miles averaging 24mpg = 833 gallons of gas x .20 cents over regular = $166/yr

just run the proper gas for the car!
 
webby said:
just run the proper gas for the car!
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Agreed
I was considering getting an si, and I would have had it not been the decreased mileage and the premium fuel. Living off minumum wage through college, I couldn't afford both for a cooler car. So I got a car that took fuel I could actually afford
 
On a slightly related note, I'd just like to point out that sometimes dealerships will lie about what types of gas to use. My grandparents have a Camry, and at the dealership when they were getting their oil changed, they said the dealership told them to put premium fuel in their car, even though it only required regular, saying it would give them more fuel efficiency. Enough to overcome the extra price they said
So they used premium in their car for over a year, until they mentioned it on the phone with me and I informed them that it was pointless to spend money on premium when you don't need it

I have no idea why the dealership lied to them. They gained nothing from them spending more money at the gas station
 
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Schaef said:
On a slightly related note, I'd just like to point out that sometimes dealerships will lie about what types of gas to use. My grandparents have a Camry, and at the dealership when they were getting their oil changed, they said the dealership told them to put premium fuel in their car, even though it only required regular, saying it would give them more fuel efficiency. Enough to overcome the extra price they said
So they used premium in their car for over a year, until they mentioned it on the phone with me and I informed them that it was pointless to spend money on premium when you don't need it

I have no idea why the dealership lied to them. They gained nothing from them spending more money at the gas station
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They were probably not doing it intentionally as some dealers are actually clueless about the cars they sell. Some dealerships I've been to actually told me I knew more about the 12 Si more than they do I remember reading in a thread where a salesman argued with their customer about whether or not the Si takes premium gas. The dealer swore it was regular but was proven wrong. They were probably misinformed or perhaps they lied. Who knows? :think:
 
FreeSamples said:
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They were probably not doing it intentionally as some dealers are actually clueless about the cars they sell. Some dealerships I've been to actually told me I knew more about the 12 Si more than they do I remember reading in a thread where a salesman argued with their customer about whether or not the Si takes premium gas. The dealer swore it was regular but was proven wrong. They were probably misinformed or perhaps they lied. Who knows? :think:
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Yea, car salesman just seem so dumb about the cars they sell. I could maybe understand it if these were those cars that dealers almost never sell, like the 370z at the Nissan dealership I went to a few days ago, but he gave us information on stuff that comes in a certain model Maxima that doesn't. And the Maxima is one of their most popular cars! They should know what they're talking about

I've always wanted to go into a test drive and say "If you make any unreasonable mistakes on your knowledge of this car, I want five hundred bucks off the price". See if they just tell me to go away
 
webby said:
20,000 miles averaging 30mpg = 666 gallons of gas x .20 cents over regular = $133/yr
20,000 miles averaging 24mpg = 833 gallons of gas x .20 cents over regular = $166/yr

just run the proper gas for the car!
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The assumptions of gas mileage are a huge consideration in how the extra expense plays out. YMMV. Given webby's numbers, all but the tightest budgets should choose premium. (Personally, I can struggle to get 20MPG given the traffic here in California, but normally it's 24/26 whether my Accord or Civic) In general, obviously the more gallons you use the more the expense. And going from 30MPG to 20MPG is also big.

But I think the main point many drivers tend to miss is the effect of retarding the ignition. There's no question about it -- it is a huge load on the engine. So much that, at some point (~87 octane) it can literally tear the engine apart! Let's think it though: If an engine is designed to ignite the air/fuel mixture at TDC (Top Dead Center) then imagine the stress of igniting the fuel before the piston even gets to TDC. Here the piston is still on the way UP, ignition occurs, which then has the affect of slapping the piston back down the wrong way! Fortunately the crank and momentum are working to keep all four stokes working well enough. But well enough doesn't mean well. Regarding the ignition (which the computer does automatically when premium isn't used) can only hurt horsepower AND, more importantly, hurt engine longevity from the additional stress.

Premium gas: pennies (well, sort of)
SI engines: priceless ;)
 
webby said:
20,000 miles averaging 30mpg = 666 gallons of gas x .20 cents over regular = $133/yr
20,000 miles averaging 24mpg = 833 gallons of gas x .20 cents over regular = $166/yr

just run the proper gas for the car!
Click to expand...
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webby's numbers are right of course. My bad. I was referring to a different situation (unrealistic when comparing the same car) where you have two cars, one getting 30 MPG on regular while the other gets 20MPG on premium. In that case the difference is roughly 300 gallons a year, which at $4.00/gallon is $1,200/yr.
 
I only put 91 in it. Thinking of putting 94 next time see how it improves the mileage or power. I think though that if we wanted to save money maybe the Si is not the most economical choice out there, i do not like to burn money for nothing but the manual suggests to use only premium and if the mileage is not worse with midgrade i bet the engine stress is bigger.

So here is my question how does 94 affect your mileage and performance? As mentioned my next tank will be 94 just to see how it goes.
 
KennyGS ........ Thx for the Top tier link....... I've been pretty good at staying knowledgable on the subject of fuel & additives ............. but was totally unaware that BP is a suck fuel(additive wise).........
I'll add one thing that some ppl don't know(ones that think they can get the same stuff at any station because the tanker picks the fuel up at the same depot). The tanker goes to the depot and connects the hose to fill the tanker and if they are going to, say, Shell. well Shell has their own additives that they want in it and the tanker driver will add th additives as he fills though a automated system controled by which bottons he pushes.
It may be the same gas but not the same additives.
Like I said I didn't know PB was not putting good additives in their fuel, which I have used but usually Shell and a few others on the list........ No more BP.
 
So here is my feedback, i put 94 in and the car seems a tiny bit smoother and faster, price diff is 2 cents per liter so I think it is not worth putting 91 instead of 94 for under a dollar diff per tank.
 
i don't have the numbers, i wasn't trying to keep a anal diary of what my mileage was but i have noticed that i get better mileage,1-2 mpg more when i use 94 octane over 91 octane. So i have been of the habit to put 94 octane in it whenever i have the chance and if not then it gets the 91 octane.
If you can't afford to put 91 octane in your Si then you shouldn't have bought a Si.
I made the choice when i bought the car to buy the car that took premium, but only after driving the car the took 87! had this funny button called econ and it sucked! :bananasplit: like mine better has a button to turn off the traction control there
 
Please don't think that octane levels in gasoline are a scam. PLEASE. If your car suggests you run 91+ octane, RUN IT. Not only do more premium fuels have superior additive and detergent packs, but they will keep your car running at maximum engineered potential as honda intended from the factory.

Those high tech knock sensors? They're for dumbasses that insist on running lower octane fuel and to compensate for bad fuel. Just let that sink in for a moment. Most of the reason premium running cars have advances knock sensors is because you're stubborn.

Yeah...
 
Monk said:
KennyGS ........ Thx for the Top tier link....... I've been pretty good at staying knowledgable on the subject of fuel & additives ............. but was totally unaware that BP is a suck fuel(additive wise).........
I'll add one thing that some ppl don't know(ones that think they can get the same stuff at any station because the tanker picks the fuel up at the same depot). The tanker goes to the depot and connects the hose to fill the tanker and if they are going to, say, Shell. well Shell has their own additives that they want in it and the tanker driver will add th additives as he fills though a automated system controled by which bottons he pushes.
It may be the same gas but not the same additives.
Like I said I didn't know PB was not putting good additives in their fuel, which I have used but usually Shell and a few others on the list........ No more BP.
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Whoa. I think I need to chime in before we start spreading bad rumors about BP.

I used to work in BP corporate. I oversaw operations in regional convenience stores. The link Kenny posted doesn't mention BP because they don't participate in the Top Tier program, however, BPs fuels far exceed the Top Tier programs standards, so much in fact that some high performance cars recommend it, and label it such right on the cap. BPs gas is about as good as it gets.

As far as what gas you're getting, if you go to a station like racetrac or QT or OTR, you are buying gas from a supermajor. It is common practice for a station to buy gas from a competitors wholesaler. The gas trucks fill up with additives based on what the jobber wants. There's zero reason to boycott BP other than for some silly idealogical reason which doesn't affect BP in the slightest
 
hotshot ........ That's good to know I haven't been putting a "LOW" tier fuel in my vehicles.

Do you know why they(BP) aren't participating in the top tier program?
 
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