2012 Civic Si 92 octane and E85 results

VitViper

VitViper

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squiggy said:
In that case, there are much more cost effective ways for hp/tq gains then.

Thanks for the info guys!
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The E85 test wasn't targeted for people interested in DD'ing on the fuel (there are some that do not care about mpg though). It was to demonstrate the gains with minimal mods. THe fuel really shines when you add heavy mods -- high compression N/A builds, turbo, supercharger. When it comes to those kind of builds, there are not more cost effective ways for power gains. Why? E85 competes with C16 race gas in that area. At 1/3 to 1/4 of the cost (E85 is like $3.44/gal here, C16 is $10/gallon).
 
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w00t692

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I'm confused how he reads that and says there are more cost effective ways for hp and tq gains lol. Fact of the matter is this modification gains nearly as much power as a downpipe without a tune does. I can't really see how it's not remotely cost effective.
 
squiggy

squiggy

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w00t692 said:
I'm confused how he reads that and says there are more cost effective ways for hp and tq gains lol. Fact of the matter is this modification gains nearly as much power as a downpipe without a tune does. I can't really see how it's not remotely cost effective.
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In terms of comparing it to racing gas, it makes sense to go this route. I had not considered the racing application. Thanks for the info on that VitViper

In terms of a DD, you have to consider the cost of the new injectors and the amount you are pouring into your gas tank every week. With a 20% loss in mileage, you have to spend 25% more to go the same distance (based on current gas prices in my area). You are literally paying more for this mod every time you fill your tank up. This is not cost effective. Why would you want to pay every time you fill your tank to gain hp/tq instead of paying for something a single time?

$350ish for injectors plus another $450ish in additional fuel costs per year (assuming a tank a week)...
 
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w00t692

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I understand this, but in the name of horsepower, some people aren't bothered by this. going from 25-27 mpg city down to, say, 21-22 mpg isn't going to hurt someone in deciding to do this. The amount of gas mileage difference is, ultimately, negligible in the grand scheme of things. People do this regularly when they upgrade from a civic si to something with a v6, or a boosted 4 cylinder like a wrx or evo. If you're going to argue cost effective? You aren't looking to modify your car, and you shouldn't modify your car. Mods aren't cost effective, they're exactly the opposite. The only mods that might be cost effective would be fitting the hybrid underbody coverings, or running low rolling resistance tires... etc.
 
squiggy

squiggy

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w00t692 said:
I understand this, but in the name of horsepower, some people aren't bothered by this. going from 25-27 mpg city down to, say, 21-22 mpg isn't going to hurt someone in deciding to do this. The amount of gas mileage difference is, ultimately, negligible in the grand scheme of things. People do this regularly when they upgrade from a civic si to something with a v6, or a boosted 4 cylinder like a wrx or evo. If you're going to argue cost effective? You aren't looking to modify your car, and you shouldn't modify your car. Mods aren't cost effective, they're exactly the opposite. The only mods that might be cost effective would be fitting the hybrid underbody coverings, or running low rolling resistance tires... etc.
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At this point you seem combative and it is not appreciated. This forum is for people from both ends of the spectrum and we are here to share the knowledge for all. Even though I may know what kind of response I will get, I may still ask a question or make a comment for the benefit of everyone that visits this forum. The community here is built around helping and informing others. Not attacking people based on their input.

As far as being cost effective and modifications, that is merely your opinion and I guarantee others do not feel the same way.
 
webby

webby

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the difference in power is night and day though -

428hp 281tq @20psi e85 20mpg city/highway
361hp 249tq @14psi 91 pump gas gets 26mpg city/highway
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67hp / 32tq for 6mpg loss (according to that one example)

~40% of what the stock 9th puts down to the wheels gained on e85. Granted not everyone is going to want a 400+whp fwd car
 
squiggy

squiggy

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webby said:
the difference in power is night and day though -

428hp 281tq @20psi e8520mpg city/highway
361hp 249tq @14psi 91 pump gas gets 26mpg city/highway
====
67hp / 32tq for 6mpg loss (according to that one example)

~40% of what the stock 9th puts down to the wheels gained on e85. Granted not everyone is going to want a 400+whp fwd car
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That is an amazing difference! Of course, this is an extreme example and I was simply referring to the 7hp gain based on this thread. If we all had that kind of money to dump into our DD's, the cost and mileage definitely wouldn't be an issue.
 
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w00t692

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There are people that do. They do it every day. Because quite simply, they don't want to boost their car, and they're not ready to build the motor, so fuel upgrade is the next logical step.

I still don't get why you're thinking about cost effective mods for your car. Sure there are people that might think that way, but when you're spending 1000 dollars on a coilover kit for your car that provides zero cost effective benefits to you? It's only cost effective in and of itself if it cost less than another alternative. And that's thinking that you were already going to spend that money. A 2.5-3.5% horsepower gain just by switching fuel is pretty damn nifty imo. It's more than you'll get from putting a catback exhaust on.

I'm not trying to be combative. People spend 200-300 dollars on a different intake because it gains a few horsepower. They spend 500 on a catback exhaust that gains horsepower for 2000 rpms and the other 4-5000 rpms gains zero power.

They spend 500 dollars on a ported intake manifold that only gains 2-5 horsepower here and there and no more. Cost effective and modifying your car just doesn't go together imo, and that's all i meant.
 
squiggy

squiggy

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w00t692 said:
There are people that do. They do it every day. Because quite simply, they don't want to boost their car, and they're not ready to build the motor, so fuel upgrade is the next logical step.

I still don't get why you're thinking about cost effective mods for your car. Sure there are people that might think that way, but when you're spending 1000 dollars on a coilover kit for your car that provides zero cost effective benefits to you? It's only cost effective in and of itself if it cost less than another alternative. And that's thinking that you were already going to spend that money. A 2.5-3.5% horsepower gain just by switching fuel is pretty damn nifty imo. It's more than you'll get from putting a catback exhaust on.

I'm not trying to be combative. People spend 200-300 dollars on a different intake because it gains a few horsepower. They spend 500 on a catback exhaust that gains horsepower for 2000 rpms and the other 4-5000 rpms gains zero power.

They spend 500 dollars on a ported intake manifold that only gains 2-5 horsepower here and there and no more. Cost effective and modifying your car just doesn't go together imo, and that's all i meant.
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I think you are confusing cost outlay versus cost effectiveness (or benefits from the cost). Every mod is going to cost money, but the question is what qualities (gains, appearance, handling, etc.) are most important to the person doing the mod versus how much they want to spend.
 
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w00t692

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Thanks, now that i think about the word more, i can understand where i went wrong here.

For naturally aspirated, there aren't, truthfully, very many more "cost effective" options for gaining horsepower, if that is your goal.
 
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w00t692

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:D

Hey vit, i was serious about those camshafts. Get your guy on it, i'm ready to buy zemz.
 
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VitViper

VitViper

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I'm going to SoCal early march, might be easier to get them that way.
 
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