2012 Civic Si Rev Hang - Software Update

tacthecat said:
A 7/12 build should have the ...50 update from the factory - You haven't experienced Rev Hang unless you've driven a ...30.
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I hear what you're saying about the build date, that's why I included it . . . car should have later ecu number, but the rev hang in this car is worse than the other two that I test drove (don't know their build dates). It almost over-revs when depressing the clutch pedal.

I am going to fight 'til this is fixed.
 
webby said:
That is true...7/12 build would have the latest. Didn't think of that. Hondata is your only option at this point.
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Am I wrong here about the Hondata fix, but as soon as they hook up the dignostics and see that the engine's been revved over 7K, they know it's been flashed. even if you reset it to factory specs, it's still going to have that history, right?
 
There is info stored pertaining to going over redline etc. So, if you went to 10k rpm on a misshift and blew the motor, they can see that. It wouldn't be covered under warranty due to user error. There is no reason for them to be pulling that data though, unless you're trying to warranty a blown motor or something. On that note, I've not seen a blown motor related to hondata, unless it was user error on an improper downshift. Like putting the car in 2nd instead of 4th doing 70mph.
 
webby said:
There is info stored pertaining to going over redline etc. So, if you went to 10k rpm on a misshift and blew the motor, they can see that. It wouldn't be covered under warranty due to user error. There is no reason for them to be pulling that data though, unless you're trying to warranty a blown motor or something. On that note, I've not seen a blown motor related to hondata, unless it was user error on an improper downshift. Like putting the car in 2nd instead of 4th doing 70mph.
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Thanks for the info webby. I extended the warranty to 60 mos, never did that with a car before. just trying to be careful not to shoot my own foot.
 
I have the reflash. The rev hang is almost gone. I talked to my service guys a bunch about it. They say to me they would not be able to void the warranty just because of the reflash. They say the same thing webby said. user error would be first because of wrong downshift is the most common reason for blowing engine .

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On a side note could you not just send the ECU back to Hondata and flash back to stock if you blew the engine to wipe the data log?

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think they'd suspect something when all of the data was missing... just downshift properly, and you'll be all good
 
went to the dealer today to get it fixed but they said they didnt have it?
 
Mr.McNip said:
went to the dealer today to get it fixed but they said they didnt have it?
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Yeah as you'll notice a lot of people are saying the same thing. Basically Honda hasn't released any official update, so therefore Honda dealers have no clue there is even an update available. Over all though I wouldn't get all worked up over it, the rev hang is still there. I almost think its kind of a mind game. You get an "update" and they don't specifically say it fixes the rev hang, and when you drive it "feels" like the rev hang has been reduced. But in my experience it really doesn't make a huge difference. I thought it did, but after really analyzing it, it doesn't seem to affect much. If you really want to eliminate rev hang check into a hondata reflash. It will eliminate rev hang completely, to my knowledge.
 
i would but i still need to check if it will void any warranty or anything lol
 
Mr.McNip said:
i would but i still need to check if it will void any warranty or anything lol
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Like you I also have the same concern. Basically how I've been explained, Honda cannot void a warranty on any original Honda parts unless you (driver error) or your new part (any aftermarket part) directly caused the original Honda part to malfunction. For this example, just a reflash will not void any warranty except your ecu warranty. (since you swapped it for a hondata software). It will not void any other warranty. However, the reflash does eliminate (among other things) your rev limiter. Currently there is a fuel cut off at 7k. Hondata removes this so you can rev to 7600 (I think). If you constantly rev to 7600 and cause damage to your engine Honda will not warranty that. But they would have to prove that you rev'd that high and thats specifically what causes the damage. To my knowledge there is a record of high revs in your data log, in your ecu. Now say you get the reflash and drive like a normal person, and your piston ring blows out. Honda will not care if you have a reflased ecu, if it shows that you don't rev excessively high on avg. But there has to be a confirmed link between the damaged part and the aftermarket part to void your warranty.

Hope that makes a lil bit of sense.
 
By way of update, Honda NA called me on Friday to see if my dealer had addressed my concerns. I told them that the dealer had not done anything to correct the rev hang and did not hook the car up or give me a repair report. Saturday, the service manager called me to ask if I could bring the car in to hook it up and ascertain the extent to which I have rev hang and see if they had a fix. He said that he had heard that these cars have intentional "rev match" built in to aid in downshifts. I cut him off mid-sentence and told him that a) Honda denies "rev-match" in the Si, and b) only really advanced drivers rev-match, and they do it on downshifts, not upshifts, and they ue heel-and-toe or a throttle blip. Those drivers don't need help from Honda. I said that if this gearbox is so fragile that they knowingly put software impediments in the way of shifting, then I will find a legal way to dump this car back in theiir laps. Get rid of the rev hang or get the car back. This has been billed a driver's car, is only available with a 6sp, and yet has the most annoying gearbox ever. Actually, with the excessive revs hanging, each shift puts more wnergy through the clutch than is normal, and it, or at least the throw-out bearing, will fail prematurely, which is a wear item. I take it in Tuesday. Will be interesting. If "rev-match" is real, then this is not an Si, It's a Sis.
 
any chance you can record how bad yours is?
 
colint said:
By way of update, Honda NA called me on Friday to see if my dealer had addressed my concerns. I told them that the dealer had not done anything to correct the rev hang and did not hook the car up or give me a repair report. Saturday, the service manager called me to ask if I could bring the car in to hook it up and ascertain the extent to which I have rev hang and see if they had a fix. He said that he had heard that these cars have intentional "rev match" built in to aid in downshifts. I cut him off mid-sentence and told him that a) Honda denies "rev-match" in the Si, and b) only really advanced drivers rev-match, and they do it on downshifts, not upshifts, and they ue heel-and-toe or a throttle blip. Those drivers don't need help from Honda. I said that if this gearbox is so fragile that they knowingly put software impediments in the way of shifting, then I will find a legal way to dump this car back in theiir laps. Get rid of the rev hang or get the car back. This has been billed a driver's car, is only available with a 6sp, and yet has the most annoying gearbox ever. Actually, with the excessive revs hanging, each shift puts more wnergy through the clutch than is normal, and it, or at least the throw-out bearing, will fail prematurely, which is a wear item. I take it in Tuesday. Will be interesting. If "rev-match" is real, then this is not an Si, It's a Sis.
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Not that I'm trying to pick a fight or anything, I completely understand your frustration with the rev hang. But don't you think you may be over reacting a tad. For sure it is annoying, but do you feel it prohibits you from driving the car how it was intended? I also have a 2012 Si and I also have rev hang. I personally don't feel that it restricts me from driving the car as it was intended (on the streets, obeying the law.) if you bought this car to lap a track a couple times a week then yes I agree it would restrict you from the feeling of ultimate control. I assume you didn't buy this car as a track car, like myself you probably daily drive this Si.

Now from a legal stand point, I could see them arguing a couple points. One it's a "drivers car" according to popular opinion. Does Honda claim this to be a "drivers car" and what does that specifically imply? Not much in a court of law I would imagine. On top of that did you test drive the car before you bought? If so did you notice the rev hang on your test drive? If you did, did you mention it to the sales man before you bought it? You have the right to not buy a product if you don't feel it is to your standards.

And to Hondas credit I do believe they knowingly designed the ecu to let rev hang to help prevent mis-shifts and driver errors. If it doesn't drop right away and you mis a gear you have an extra sec or two to correct it. That is probably ginna cut down the number of transmissions they have to replace before the warranty runs up. Honda is full of smart people that make things that generally last longer than your avg product. I think this is one of those things. Maybe I am completely wrong and someone really just messed up at Honda and un-intentionally created the rev hang.

If it really bothers you to the point you wanna return the. At why don't you consider hondata reflash? It will change the ecu to remove rev hang completely. Or maybe mention to the dealership that hondata has fixed the problem, maybe they will buy it for you to prevent you from being am un happy consumer.

Again I am really not trying to pick on you, or start a fight. I just feel that it's a relatively small issue and it makes you want to return the whole car. I just had my pistons replaced from oil consumption and I ha similiar feelings, but overall I love my car and Honda. I would trust them to take care of you and provide you with correct information.
 
WhiteFG4 said:
Not that I'm trying to pick a fight or anything, I completely understand your frustration with the rev hang. But don't you think you may be over reacting a tad. For sure it is annoying, but do you feel it prohibits you from driving the car how it was intended? I also have a 2012 Si and I also have rev hang. I personally don't feel that it restricts me from driving the car as it was intended (on the streets, obeying the law.) if you bought this car to lap a track a couple times a week then yes I agree it would restrict you from the feeling of ultimate control. I assume you didn't buy this car as a track car, like myself you probably daily drive this Si.

Now from a legal stand point, I could see them arguing a couple points. One it's a "drivers car" according to popular opinion. Does Honda claim this to be a "drivers car" and what does that specifically imply? Not much in a court of law I would imagine. On top of that did you test drive the car before you bought? If so did you notice the rev hang on your test drive? If you did, did you mention it to the sales man before you bought it? You have the right to not buy a product if you don't feel it is to your standards.

And to Hondas credit I do believe they knowingly designed the ecu to let rev hang to help prevent mis-shifts and driver errors. If it doesn't drop right away and you mis a gear you have an extra sec or two to correct it. That is probably ginna cut down the number of transmissions they have to replace before the warranty runs up. Honda is full of smart people that make things that generally last longer than your avg product. I think this is one of those things. Maybe I am completely wrong and someone really just messed up at Honda and un-intentionally created the rev hang.

If it really bothers you to the point you wanna return the. At why don't you consider hondata reflash? It will change the ecu to remove rev hang completely. Or maybe mention to the dealership that hondata has fixed the problem, maybe they will buy it for you to prevent you from being am un happy consumer.

Again I am really not trying to pick on you, or start a fight. I just feel that it's a relatively small issue and it makes you want to return the whole car. I just had my pistons replaced from oil consumption and I ha similiar feelings, but overall I love my car and Honda. I would trust them to take care of you and provide you with correct information.
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In a word, no. I don't think I'm over-reacting. The stick is the conduit between the driver and the car. . . no getting around it. The dealer has mentioned that there are aftermarket fixes, and used Hondata by name. Rather than offer to buy it for me, they warned against using it, for the reasons explored above. Plus, I actually bought an extended warranty, something I never do.

As to a couple other things, rev hang will not prevent a mis-shift, and no, I did not test drive this car. The salesman and I had driven two others, both of which had the rev hang, and this one had just come in, never having been driven, other than off the truck.

In fairness, I had no idea rev hang would bother me this much either, but it does. Think about it, I could have had a GTI SDG or Mazdaspeed 3 for about the sanme money, and how many times do you shift in an average drive, each shift acting as a reminder? Knowing that this is not how a transmission should behave?

I also know that you intend to be helpful, WhiteFG4.

I'm sure that Honda will do the right thing, one way or another. It is a very good company, selling very good cars. We will work this out.
 
Honestly if you continue to tell Honda NA when they call that yor un happy, they will probably do anything they can to help you. That how I got my pistons replaced as well. And I really hope they actually realize this is an issue and fix it. I dislike it as well. Good luck!
 
tacthecat said:
A 7/12 build should have the ...50 update from the factory - You haven't experienced Rev Hang unless you've driven a ...30.
Click to expand...
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I don't know... maybe having the warranty isn't that important after all. After I confirm that everything is working well (5,000 - 10,000 miles?) I'm going with Hondata. As I understand it, Honda has built over a million VTECH engines without a failure. So what's the risk? Maybe our concern over the warranty isn't really, ah... 'warranted'. :-) It's a Honda... who needs a stinkin' warranty!
 
colint said:
Thanks for the info webby. I extended the warranty to 60 mos, never did that with a car before. just trying to be careful not to shoot my own foot.
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I bought the extended warranty as well. But once I decided to use Hondata I went back to the dealer and canceled the contract and got a full refund. It was within 30 days. But you can still get a prorated refund if you want to drop it...which is most of it.
 
colint said:
In a word, no. I don't think I'm over-reacting. The stick is the conduit between the driver and the car. . . no getting around it. The dealer has mentioned that there are aftermarket fixes, and used Hondata by name. Rather than offer to buy it for me, they warned against using it, for the reasons explored above. Plus, I actually bought an extended warranty, something I never do.

As to a couple other things, rev hang will not prevent a mis-shift, and no, I did not test drive this car. The salesman and I had driven two others, both of which had the rev hang, and this one had just come in, never having been driven, other than off the truck.

In fairness, I had no idea rev hang would bother me this much either, but it does. Think about it, I could have had a GTI SDG or Mazdaspeed 3 for about the sanme money, and how many times do you shift in an average drive, each shift acting as a reminder? Knowing that this is not how a transmission should behave?

I also know that you intend to be helpful, WhiteFG4.

I'm sure that Honda will do the right thing, one way or another. It is a very good company, selling very good cars. We will work this out.
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______________________
While I'm glad it doesn't bug everybody, I'm with you, colin. For me this is also a huge issue. I've had the car for 3 months and have 315 miles on it. Until it's fixed I can't stand to drive it.
 
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