Official 'What did you do to your car today?' Thread

Swapped over to the snowies on both my lady's vehicle and my own - or at least I tried. The Mazda dealer put her lugs on so tight I sheared off two different 3/8" to 1/2" adapters with my breaker bar!!
Might be getting some air tools for Xmas lol

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webby said:
so the stuff you sent for testing was amsoil mtf? If so, how many miles on it?
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Sorry for the long message here... but this is very important for anybody using Amsoil MTF.

When I sent mine in (the amsoil atf) not many miles were on it, maybe a few thousand. And the car had between 10 - 15 at the time.

So i was shocked at how bad my wear metals were. And it was even an Amsoil-sponsored lab. Even they said "hey, you got some problems here!" Given the trend, had I waited much longer the tranny was toast. Definitely. (i'll look for the original report... but it was saying the situation was "Critical" -- in red letters -- saying failure was imminent... that kind of stuff)

I intentionally kept enough fluid for a second sample, knowing legal trouble could be brewing, which was sent to Blackstone for a second opinion. They, too, were shocked at how bad the fluid was doing in terms of protecting the gears.. and how the fluid itself was not holding up either. Like the fluid wasn't designed for the application...

Naturally I contacted Amsoil headquarters where i had spend a week doing their Industrial Training. (was big into Amsoil at the time)

To my disappointment they basically blew me off. I had made the mistake of sending them the Blackstone report to substantiate my concerns, that their fluid was on the verge of causing a tranny failure.

Blackstone took a more conservative wait-and-see approach. They said to change the fluid since the situation might have been caused by the tranny still being relatively new. Well, without the Amsoil the problem immediately started to clear up. The OEM fluid held up much better... and the wear metals were back within normal ranges, mostly.

And here's the most important part: It's a limited slip differential, right? Take a look at Amsoil's MTF bottle... mine clearly said "not for limited slip differentials" even though the product was specifically recommended for the '12 Si. That's what made me drain it early in the first place.

Amsoil's a small company so i suspect the issue got to Troy Paquette their chief chemist at the time. Hopefully he's made the necessary changes for a limited slip differential.... or perhaps they changed the bottle and eliminated the direct/OEM replacement recommendation. Either way, i'm sticking with OEM for now. It's been rock solid for 50,000 miles... although i continue to change it at least every 10,000. Will post my lab reports so guys can compare.

Good luck.
 
Bruce Bartlow said:
____________________
Sorry for the long message here... but this is very important for anybody using Amsoil MTF.

When I sent mine in (the amsoil atf) not many miles were on it, maybe a few thousand. And the car had between 10 - 15 at the time.

So i was shocked at how bad my wear metals were. And it was even an Amsoil-sponsored lab. Even they said "hey, you got some problems here!" Given the trend, had I waited much longer the tranny was toast. Definitely. (i'll look for the original report... but it was saying the situation was "Critical" -- in red letters -- saying failure was imminent... that kind of stuff)

I intentionally kept enough fluid for a second sample, knowing legal trouble could be brewing, which was sent to Blackstone for a second opinion. They, too, were shocked at how bad the fluid was doing in terms of protecting the gears.. and how the fluid itself was not holding up either. Like the fluid wasn't designed for the application...

Naturally I contacted Amsoil headquarters where i had spend a week doing their Industrial Training. (was big into Amsoil at the time)

To my disappointment they basically blew me off. I had made the mistake of sending them the Blackstone report to substantiate my concerns, that their fluid was on the verge of causing a tranny failure.

Blackstone took a more conservative wait-and-see approach. They said to change the fluid since the situation might have been caused by the tranny still being relatively new. Well, without the Amsoil the problem immediately started to clear up. The OEM fluid held up much better... and the wear metals were back within normal ranges, mostly.

And here's the most important part: It's a limited slip differential, right? Take a look at Amsoil's MTF bottle... mine clearly said "not for limited slip differentials" even though the product was specifically recommended for the '12 Si. That's what made me drain it early in the first place.

Amsoil's a small company so i suspect the issue got to Troy Paquette their chief chemist at the time. Hopefully he's made the necessary changes for a limited slip differential.... or perhaps they changed the bottle and eliminated the direct/OEM replacement recommendation. Either way, i'm sticking with OEM for now. It's been rock solid for 50,000 miles... although i continue to change it at least every 10,000. Will post my lab reports so guys can compare.

Good luck.
Click to expand...
Out of curiosity, did you ever do a second fill with the Amsoil MTF and have it tested? I brought this exact issue up previously, using your exact report as evidence that the LSD might be the variable in question and was told by an Amsoil rep that my suggestion was nonsense.

I have a bunch of the fluid because I went ahead and bought a case when I had the discount last year, so barring any craziness I would be willing to go at least 2 fills to see how the fluid tests as long as I'm not killing my transmission in the process. It's easy enough to change the fluid, but now I'm worried I'm hurting my car.

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PainlessCandy said:
Out of curiosity, did you ever do a second fill with the Amsoil MTF and have it tested? I brought this exact issue up previously, using your exact report as evidence that the LSD might be the variable in question and was told by an Amsoil rep that my suggestion was nonsense.

I have a bunch of the fluid because I went ahead and bought a case when I had the discount last year, so barring any craziness I would be willing to go at least 2 fills to see how the fluid tests as long as I'm not killing my transmission in the process. It's easy enough to change the fluid, but now I'm worried I'm hurting my car.

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Click to expand...
I would advise against it. I had a bad test after around 5,000 miles on mine as well.
 
A second fill? No... i was too concerned with what the labs were telling me. The second report from Blackstone is attached, after i had gone back to OEM. But you can clearly see the problem at 5,500 miles after the Amsoil.

It might be significant that i drained the factory fill after just 2,000 miles, thereby draining some or most of the initial wear metals. At least that was my thinking... i honestly don't know how long those things take. But the report indicates what the "averages" should be and where i was. So the Amsoil MTF had just 3,500 miles at the time of testing, and wear metals were going through the f'n roof. As soon as I changed back the situation immediately started getting better. Coincidence? Perhaps, but if it was a company like Blackstone would have seen it before.

Just too bad i didn't test the original factory fill at 2,000. Because maybe it was just a particular problem with my tranny.

By the way, Amsoil's response is interesting because there should be an official complaint from an Amsoil dealer on file. But that's the problem with small private companies who depend entirely on their reputation... when it comes to releasing potentially damaging information, they do what the hell they want. And Alex (AJ's son, the guy who inherited Amsoil) seemed a lot more concerned with money than quality than his dad.

I spent a week out there with those guys... The famous "AJ" Amatuzio (the fighter pilot who always insisted on using the best ingredients) was on his way out and his 21 year old son Alex was taking over... and we all know what so often happens in those situations. Even in the best cases there's a learning curve.

As a practical matter, it was during that time Amsoil began to change. Every time i turned around Alex was doing something to compromise the Amsoil product and reputation. Remember their "OE" line? Customers save .15/quart but lose the 25,000 mile or 1 year warranty. It dropped to a 7,500 miles... which is like any other oil. But Amsoil saves a ton on those products because there's no (expensive) PAO Group IV or Group V esters.. the very ingredients that made their oils so legendary. And that's just one example.

Question -- what do the newer MTF bottles say regarding LSD... anything?
 

Attachments

After reviewing the report, it's possible the factory fill was drained even earlier than 2,000. So the Amsoil MTF might have had 4,500 miles instead of 3,500 miles. But that shouldn't make a difference. And thanks @squiggy for reminding us of your experience. Same exact thing.
 
Just a bummer about buying a case of it... If you have a local dealer maybe he'll exchange the MTF for one of the other products. That's what i've done, otherwise shipping will kill ya.
You know, this whole episode was almost 5 years ago... i was expecting Amsoil to make changes for the LSD after the run-in they had with me. I mean, we're talking at least a $4,000 tranny, right?

But if they're denying the whole thing, apparently not.

At a minimum get some Blackstone test kits and keep a close eye on it. And keep us posted.
 
Digging up old reports. Seems both cars (the '12 Si and an '09 Accord) and both with the K24 have similar problems with lead.
 

Attachments

Bruce Bartlow said:
Hopefully he's made the necessary changes for a limited slip differential.... or perhaps they changed the bottle and eliminated the direct/OEM replacement recommendation.
Click to expand...
I put in a 2012 civic si, and their product page pulls up 1 option for MTF. In the fine print of the full description it still says...

"Not for use in engines, hypoid rear axles, limited-slip or wet-clutch applications."
https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-prod...omesh-transmission-fluid-5w-30/?code=MTFQT-EA

so they're still selling it as the mtf to use, yet it says do not use it in lsd applications.
 
Excess lead makes sense in the Si because i occasionally use Torco Accelerator, an race gas simulator/octane boost. Not sure what the story is with the Accord.
webby said:
I put in a 2012 civic si, and their product page pulls up 1 option for MTF. In the fine print of the full description it still says...

"Not for use in engines, hypoid rear axles, limited-slip or wet-clutch applications."
https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-prod...omesh-transmission-fluid-5w-30/?code=MTFQT-EA

so they're still selling it as the mtf to use, yet it says do not use it in lsd applications.
Click to expand...
____________
EXACTLY... so what the hell are we supposed to think!
 
I was pretty messed up over this. If my brand new tranny had blown or suffered extensive damage i was ready to go legal... especially after reading the "Not for use in... limited slip" stuff. Then the test results came in... then squiggy confirming identical problems? I was prepared for war.

Here i thought Amsoil was this stand up company with a rock solid warranty to back up their claims. Wrong. Then to deal with their arrogant attitude, that was the end for me. They had no intention of entertaining any warranty claims. First they deny any problem and finally used the Blackstone verbiage as a way to buy time. Well, i didn't want to risk any more damage so i went back to OEM rather than prove them wrong.

Anyway, good research there... thx.

By the way, Ultra Platinum Pennzoil is every bit as good as Amsoil now, and may very well be better. Very stout. The guys on BITOG are all over it. The regular Platinum is very good too, and WalMart has it for about $5/qt. Can't beat it for that price. And if you drive the snot out of that K24 or prefer extended oil changes (min 7,500) buy the Ultra when you can. A deal for $8/qt or less.

P.S. Bought this killer 19" extended box wrench... makes removing the MT upper fill bolt a piece of cake:
Amazon product ASIN B07BRNH2BKView: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07BRNH2BK/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 
That's it for me today guys... thanks for the chat. Time for a nice big glass of chardonnay.
 
Bruce Bartlow said:
A second fill? No... i was too concerned with what the labs were telling me. The second report from Blackstone is attached, after i had gone back to OEM. But you can clearly see the problem at 5,500 miles after the Amsoil.

It might be significant that i drained the factory fill after just 2,000 miles, thereby draining some or most of the initial wear metals. At least that was my thinking... i honestly don't know how long those things take. But the report indicates what the "averages" should be and where i was. So the Amsoil MTF had just 3,500 miles at the time of testing, and wear metals were going through the f'n roof. As soon as I changed back the situation immediately started getting better. Coincidence? Perhaps, but if it was a company like Blackstone would have seen it before.

Just too bad i didn't test the original factory fill at 2,000. Because maybe it was just a particular problem with my tranny.

By the way, Amsoil's response is interesting because there should be an official complaint from an Amsoil dealer on file. But that's the problem with small private companies who depend entirely on their reputation... when it comes to releasing potentially damaging information, they do what the hell they want. And Alex (AJ's son, the guy who inherited Amsoil) seemed a lot more concerned with money than quality than his dad.

I spent a week out there with those guys... The famous "AJ" Amatuzio (the fighter pilot who always insisted on using the best ingredients) was on his way out and his 21 year old son Alex was taking over... and we all know what so often happens in those situations. Even in the best cases there's a learning curve.

As a practical matter, it was during that time Amsoil began to change. Every time i turned around Alex was doing something to compromise the Amsoil product and reputation. Remember their "OE" line? Customers save .15/quart but lose the 25,000 mile or 1 year warranty. It dropped to a 7,500 miles... which is like any other oil. But Amsoil saves a ton on those products because there's no (expensive) PAO Group IV or Group V esters.. the very ingredients that made their oils so legendary. And that's just one example.

Question -- what do the newer MTF bottles say regarding LSD... anything?
Click to expand...
I will check my bottles to see what they say as soon as I get home tonight; I'm sure it still reads the same, I just don't remember seeing it on the bottle. Thank you all for all the insight, it is very helpful.

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Last edited:
PainlessCandy said:
That's interesting, because my report came back with high lead as well.View attachment 58427

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Click to expand...
_________________
wow... now we're getting somewhere. That's some major iron there. Do you use octane boosters occasionally? If not, this is starting to look like a trend.... just don't know what it means.
Oh, i know... it's time for a Type R!

:brock:
 
PainlessCandy said:
I will check my bottles to see what they say as soon as I get home tonight; I'm sure it still reads the same, I just don't remember seeing it on the bottle. Thank you all for all the insight, it is very helpful.

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Click to expand...
______________
My pleasure.

I know how much these cars mean to all of us, whether a daily driver or a major fun machine... but in all cases there's a lot of money involved.

Hope to see you at the Dragon someday. Cheers.
 
Bruce Bartlow said:
_________________
wow... now we're getting somewhere. That's some major iron there. Do you use octane boosters occasionally? If not, this is starting to look like a trend.... just don't know what it means.
Oh, i know... it's time for a Type R!

:brock:
Click to expand...
I have never used octane boosters or race fuel, and while on that oil I specifically made sure not to use any additives so I would get a solid base for testing in the future.

Here it is, right on the bottle. I find the bit that specifically mentions Honda MTF to be interesting - it works but it doesn't, lol.

232dc3546f00098f5926e251ba6744ae.jpg


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