Changing manual transmission fluid

Discussion in 'Mechanical Problems & Technical Chat' started by Bruce Bartlow, Sep 29, 2012.

  1. Bruce Bartlow

    Bruce Bartlow Late apex everything

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    Dude, 3 times... from California? I'm impressed.... and I owe you a pitcher of beer for not knowing that.. dang!

    I'll post and repost my 3 MTF reports for comparison. The first two were ugLY (Amsoil MTF ) and the last one -- 12k with OEM -- was mostly normal. Despite the Amsoil providing horrific results, Blackstone agreed with Amsoil corporate that it was probably just break-in.... so Blackstone didn't do me any favors there, despite the results being off the charts bad.

    What worries me most is that the tranny hasn't been the same since... between 2nd and 3rd it almost shifts itself. Didn't yours (with a steady diet of Amsoil) need rebuilding at like 80,000 miles?
     
  2. mikey6p

    mikey6p Members Only

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    Yeah three times. Drove twice and flew and rented a car last year.

    My car had amsoil for I'd want to say 60,000 of those miles. The transmission was getting progressively louder and whinier. I had it rebuilt at 80k and all the bearings in it were damaged. They all feel "sandy" I still have them in a a box in my garage :)
     
  3. 07TLX
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    07TLX Supporting Member

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    Prob from heavy usage and not poor fluid...

    I had the bearings replaced in my car last winter, issue caused by driving too hard and not aftermarket fluid used...
     
  4. Bruce Bartlow

    Bruce Bartlow Late apex everything

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    Of all people, Nathan.... YOU "driving too hard"....lol! You define the expression "bat out of hell", buddy! (You and Jason were the best drivers i've ever seen) But seriously, you have a point about the fluids.

    Still, i'll use whatever fluid holds up best according to fluid analysis. For me, with 3 fluid changes done between Honda and Amsoil, the Honda MTF is the clear winner. But i'll be trying others... so we'll see.

    Good to hear from ya, 07TLX!
     
  5. mikey6p

    mikey6p Members Only

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    [​IMG]
     
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  6. Bruce Bartlow

    Bruce Bartlow Late apex everything

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    Hey Mikey.... you should have those bearings looked at. It's often possible to tell whether the failure was lubricant related or just Mario Andretti stuff.

    If you can, post some close up pics and i'll see what i can do.
    ___________
    Just awesome... best report i've ever seen. Did you do anything special during the rebuild?
     
  7. webby
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    What oil is that?
     
  8. Bruce Bartlow

    Bruce Bartlow Late apex everything

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    believe he said OEM (Honda) if i'm not mistaken.
     
  9. webby
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    Honda's 0-20 full synth, ...0-20 mix...or other maybe?
     
  10. Bruce Bartlow

    Bruce Bartlow Late apex everything

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    I suppose it's simply the Honda MTF. It's not synthetic, no.
     
  11. webby
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    Oh this is mtf...my bad. Disregard. I wasn't paying attention. I wasn't even thinking mtf change at 9k.
     
  12. mikey6p

    mikey6p Members Only

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    Switched to the type R final drive. Replaced all bearings. Nothing else special.
     
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  13. Bruce Bartlow

    Bruce Bartlow Late apex everything

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    Thx... appreciate the tip. I'll ask about those for my '12... 'cause i appear to be killing the OEM stuff.
     
  14. 07TLX
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    07TLX Supporting Member

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    140k of hard driving did this to my transmission input shaft bearing, I am still on the same fluid from the first week in Sept and you can't tell I beat on the car
    image.jpg
     
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  15. Bruce Bartlow

    Bruce Bartlow Late apex everything

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    Not exactly sure what i'm looking at... but no obvious scoring. But why do have it broken down... just to send us the pics? :)
     
  16. Bill Samolian

    Bill Samolian Well-Known Member

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    That looks like a defective bearing from the get go, but the cage just let go with stress, I suppose.
     
  17. Keens

    Keens Well-Known Member

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    Hate to hi-jack the thread.. especially as my first post. I came across this awesome thread through mediocre google-fu and have learned a lot, especially from Mr. Bartlow. Questions: Is the RedLine MTF bad to use instead of factory fluid, or has it been tested yet? Bruce, have you done any more extensive testing on wear with the OEM fluid, and how often do YOU recommend changing it? (Just rolled 15k) Also, is there somewhere else you have covered synthetic oils extensively, as I saw you never went in to "level V" lubricants; you had run out of time. Seems like you are the fella to go to.
     
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  18. Bruce Bartlow

    Bruce Bartlow Late apex everything

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    Hey, welcome to 9th! The people here are great. I mean really great. (I'm just the guy who likes oil, that's all)

    And yes, I've got a lot of catching up to do in 2014. Will probably just post a few general articles so I don't pollute the threads too much. So don't be surprised if I answer your occasional question directly.

    For the most part, most change their oil every 3,000, 5,000, 7,500 (a small minority 10,000) ... and call it a day. I'm getting more like that myself. For me, it's 3,000 miles for Mobil 1 and other Class 3 lubes... 5,000 - 7,500 for Class 4 PAO's.... and upwards of 35,000 miles for Class V lubricants -- especially if used with a bypass filter. Also depends on the type of driving. So there's no easy answer without having some background.

    I don't have any personal test data on Redline products, no. Years ago I visited their lab here in California and was not impressed with their quality control, at all. In fact, the place was a dump.... and I can't even remember the last time they came out with a high end product worth discussing. Still, some folks use their products and are very happy. I believe @07TLX is a long term user of Redline MTF....and has had zero problems. If I run across anything scientific I'll pass it along.

    On the MTF drain interval: Simply put, since you're still under warranty I'd stick with OEM MTF every 12,000 (or 1 year) until you know from fluid analysis that it's safe to go 25,000, 30,000 --- the normal service interval. Sure you could do that now... but because the car is new you could have some elevated wear metals that should be removed. Also, if you're a spirited driver and/or plan on keeping your car a long time (or handing it down) the extra expense should be money well spent, especially if you do it yourself. I mean, heck, it only takes 2 quarts!

    As a general rule if the lab results are good I'd leave it in longer the next time, whatever it is. Blackstone and Oil Analyzers are my top two labs... and I prefer OI because they add the TBN test (for motor oil) without the additional $10.00 charge. That's an important # if you plan on extending drain intervals.

    You understand, of course, that after your first year at 9th Civic you're obligated to host Happy Hour at The Dragon, right?
     
  19. 07TLX
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    07TLX Supporting Member

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    It's missing some ball bearings.....lol

    It's a old pic, guess to show what hard driving can do even with good fluid.


    I run Red Line in my 07 LX and have never had a issue, I prefer it over the Honda MTF. I am able to get 30-50 thousand miles of trouble free smooth shifting with Redline where as I get 15,000 miles if I am lucky on Honda fluid. Mind you I can be hard on the car and live in a world ruled by mom's in suv's, lots of hills and miles of awesome back roads...

    I have sent my oil in for testing but the results are how I found my transmission issue, but other than finding out there was increased iron in my fluid it tested perfectly fine. Come spring time I will prob change my fluid and send it for analysis.
     
  20. Keens

    Keens Well-Known Member

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    I'll keep that in mind! I am not far at all actually, in South Carolina. I didn't know about The Dragon until visiting this site, after buying this SI.. I was 10 miles from it last October and didn't even realize it! I hope to see some of you there soon.

    It seems like a good quality Class 4 PAO (acronym?) is what I am looking for. I have always used mobile 1, but would like to benefit from longer drain intervals. I get the vibe that you like Amsoil products.. :) Which do you recommend for the SI as of right now? 0w-20 weight correct? I don't mind forking out the cash for a good lube and filter. I have access to mobil 1 filters right now, and have heard they are good, but are the considered "bypass" filters?

    Thanks again!
     

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