Hondata Releases 2012 Honda Civic Si ECU Reflash!!

Gotta remember guys, this is church's dyno. A good rule of thumb is subtract 7% for any numbers off of their dyno.

so 211/187 turns into 196/173

Which by all means ain't bad at all, at the very least as good as a i/h/e 8th gen.

Looking forward to seeing what these 9th gens can do with full modifications and a tune. BTW, i know you guys are thinking you're going to beat out the k20 in horsepower, but i highly doubt you will. Most good bolt-ons reach 220-230 whp. If these engines can hit those numbers i'd be impressed.
 
w00t692 said:
BTW, i know you guys are thinking you're going to beat out the k20 in horsepower, but i highly doubt you will.
Click to expand...

you realize bisimoto already hit over 1000hp on the 2012 turbocharged?
 
there are 1100 horsepower k20's. What's your point?

What is the point in arguing semantics about what some race shop did? i'm talking about a stock engine with bolt-ons and here comes bisimoto who sells chinese made headers for custom hand made pricing...

I wasn't even saying anyone is better than another. But what i am saying is I DON'T EXPECT the engine to hit those numbers and that i would be impressed if it does. That is all.
 
Maybe my post came off wrong, or I'm reading too much into your post. I will write more when I can get to a computer.
 
ok -

w00t692 said:
BTW, i know you guys are thinking you're going to beat out the k20 in horsepower, but i highly doubt you will.
Click to expand...

webby said:
you realize bisimoto already hit over 1000hp on the 2012 turbocharged?
Click to expand...

This was purely me asking if you were aware of the bisimoto vehicle. I have no clue if you knew it existed, or what he was able to do with the car, ...nothing more. My comment had nothing to do with starting a war between the k20 and k24 engines, or trying to say one was better than another. I also had no clue you were saying it purely on the basis of bolt on parts. Seeing as how injen just released the intake, and full-race just released an exhaust, it may be premature to say you highly doubt the k24 could beat the k20, no? I understand that the head design for the k24 has some limitations, but the car can obviously achieve decent results with a turbo setup. Bolt on parts are showing positive things, but we're just in the early stages.

Another reason I made the post - it took roughly 3yrs for the first 8th member to break into the 500hp range. The 2012 wasn't even out but a few months and that was already achieved. Full race hit like 450 on their one setup, and bisi hit over 1k. That's great for the community, when the car has just been out like a year. I have no connection to bisi or full-race,...I'm just excited to see things progressing so quickly this round.

As for bolt ons -injen's email snip -
injen said:
The vehicle produces a consistent 10-12Hp and 11-13TQ throughout the entire power band . We saw gains as high as 19hp and 15 tq but we don’t advertise the highest gains like some of our competitors do. I included a dynograph just to show you that. We did 3 runs with the Injen intake and 3 runs with the stock air box. Both on the same day back to back to get the most consistent results.
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we'll have to see users results with the injen, but there weren't gains that high in the 8th, I can say that. Even if people see the lower #'s, that's still a decent gain on just an intake.

bisi's downpipe he was working on -
total gain of 17.3whp over stock.
Click to expand...

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq-UzpdOwTU

again, it's just good to see things like this happening, and decent gains with a downpipe.


w00t692 said:
there are 1100 horsepower k20's. What's your point?

What is the point in arguing semantics about what some race shop did? i'm talking about a stock engine with bolt-ons and here comes bisimoto who sells chinese made headers for custom hand made pricing...

I wasn't even saying anyone is better than another. But what i am saying is I DON'T EXPECT the engine to hit those numbers and that i would be impressed if it does. That is all.
Click to expand...

I'm not doubting there are 1000+hp k20's. I can say that there weren't any hitting that mark on 8th in the first year of being on the market. Again,... not arguing what shop did one thing or another. I have no affiliations/connections to any shop. I saw the whole thing about bisi and the chinese parts online... again, a person in their back yard could have hit 1k hp, and I would have asked if you had seen it. I've never bought a part from bisi, so...yeah. I was purely asking if you'd seen that setup. I don't know you, or what you've read/seen online. I was purely going to link you to his project, or full-race's project to show you what's been made to this point. Maybe it would change your mind on what the engine is capable of, I don't know?

I have no beef with the k20, or any other engine for that matter. I was thrilled when users had aftermarket options on 8th, and I'm trilled to see aftermarket stuff happening for 9th. It just seems like stuff is happening faster with the 9th. There are a number of 8th si and non-si users who hang out on here, and post their projects. Heck, there are a lot of different brand owners who hang out and talk cars on here. To me, it just sounded kind of rough to be saying you highly doubt the k24 is going to be capable of beating the k20 when there are only a few options for the car.
 
They weren't hitting it the first year on the market because they came out in 1998, and there was no ability or drive to tune them yet.

Things happen fast with the 9th because the work is already done (the 9th uses identical ecu communication, except it's a newer faster ecu) for the ecu.

Considering the design of the cylinder head, you are limited from the factory for all motor. I think it will be an excellent motor for boost, but not for people that just want to bolt things on.

Honda very much so designed this k24 to have a lot more mid range than the other k24's they've released, and vtec is placed properly (the hondata reflash doesn't touch it)

This engine is gaining well from the mods because it's already tuned very well and due to the displacement it comes alive with mods.

But even so, i expect 10-15 from an intake, maybe 10 from a downpipe and cat delete, and not much from a full exhaust, maybe 5 hp.

That leaves you at a 30 horsepower gain and then a tune might get you 10 horsepower on top of that. These are all ideal numbers. I don't expect every engine to respond like this.

I'm also excited to see what the k24 can do, but i have guesstimates in my head and i've only said i'm curious to see the engine fulfill them and it will surprise me if it surpasses that.

Considering i've tuned more k24a2's than you can shake a stick at and seen the power output, and that's on a true vtec engine, i don't think the k24z7 will match it.

But i'm excited for modifications and i'm excited to be tuning 2012 si's in the near future as well.
 
Also, i don't trust a word out of bisimoto's mouth at all. He's tuned multiple cars i've seen so poorly that i feel sorry anyone paid him.
 
When I was mentioning the "first year", I was referring to the k20z3 from the 8th gen. It was out for roughly 3 yrs when someone broke into the 500's. As for bisi and tunes, I'm aware. I was caught in the middle of a mess on the 8th forum when a member had a bad experience. I kept going back and forth between the user, hondata, and bisi. It got to the point where threats of lawsuit came up.
 
Webby - what you posted is 100% true.. heck i remember how long it took to break the 500whp on any k series at all!! this is working with hasport back in the day on prototype kswapped EG's, ive got file libraries full of photos and work. This was long before any sort of hondata option existied for K's... AEM or full-on standalones were the only way to control the engine, things have come a loong way
 
webby said:
ok -





This was purely me asking if you were aware of the bisimoto vehicle. I have no clue if you knew it existed, or what he was able to do with the car, ...nothing more. My comment had nothing to do with starting a war between the k20 and k24 engines, or trying to say one was better than another. I also had no clue you were saying it purely on the basis of bolt on parts. Seeing as how injen just released the intake, and full-race just released an exhaust, it may be premature to say you highly doubt the k24 could beat the k20, no? I understand that the head design for the k24 has some limitations, but the car can obviously achieve decent results with a turbo setup. Bolt on parts are showing positive things, but we're just in the early stages.

Another reason I made the post - it took roughly 3yrs for the first 8th member to break into the 500hp range. The 2012 wasn't even out but a few months and that was already achieved. Full race hit like 450 on their one setup, and bisi hit over 1k. That's great for the community, when the car has just been out like a year. I have no connection to bisi or full-race,...I'm just excited to see things progressing so quickly this round.

As for bolt ons -injen's email snip -

we'll have to see users results with the injen, but there weren't gains that high in the 8th, I can say that. Even if people see the lower #'s, that's still a decent gain on just an intake.

bisi's downpipe he was working on -


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq-UzpdOwTU

again, it's just good to see things like this happening, and decent gains with a downpipe.




I'm not doubting there are 1000+hp k20's. I can say that there weren't any hitting that mark on 8th in the first year of being on the market. Again,... not arguing what shop did one thing or another. I have no affiliations/connections to any shop. I saw the whole thing about bisi and the chinese parts online... again, a person in their back yard could have hit 1k hp, and I would have asked if you had seen it. I've never bought a part from bisi, so...yeah. I was purely asking if you'd seen that setup. I don't know you, or what you've read/seen online. I was purely going to link you to his project, or full-race's project to show you what's been made to this point. Maybe it would change your mind on what the engine is capable of, I don't know?

I have no beef with the k20, or any other engine for that matter. I was thrilled when users had aftermarket options on 8th, and I'm trilled to see aftermarket stuff happening for 9th. It just seems like stuff is happening faster with the 9th. There are a number of 8th si and non-si users who hang out on here, and post their projects. Heck, there are a lot of different brand owners who hang out and talk cars on here. To me, it just sounded kind of rough to be saying you highly doubt the k24 is going to be capable of beating the k20 when there are only a few options for the car.
Click to expand...


What is the likelyhood that a header for this car will come out??
 
since it's cast into the head, it's not actually possible. Bisi's setup that he was working on was essentially a cat delete that bolts to the stock header. I'd imagine more companies will do similar things, and then cat back exhausts
 
I'm not sure on dyno #'s.... but they also have a flashpro for the r18. I know at least 1 member here has the r18 flashpro on his 8th gen.
 
Is the only option to get this done sending in your ecu? Or would I be able to contact an authorized hondata dealer/tuner shop and take my car there and have it flashed?
 
you could physically go to hondata - they're in torrance.
 
I'm pretty sure these Z7's will eventually outperform the Z3's in every way possible other than revving to the moon. Once the aftermarket support for these engines reaches the level that previous K series motors have, I'm sure we'll see some pretty impressive set ups with amazing street manners. I'd say, in the next few years, we'll be seeing cam'd Z7's putting down some substantial numbers on the dyno, and what's infinitely more important, some very respectable times at the track (be it in a straight line or the twisty kind). I'm certainly no expert, but I think the K24Z7 is a great concept with a lot of potential.
 
I agree that this is a great engine. It's not a drag racing engine, but this long stroke is going to be great for road racers. I'm not sure Honda did the right thing by taking this approach because people seem to be complaining about it's lack of revs. Naturally aspirated there is not going to be a whole lot of power potential from this engine, but turbocharging is a whole other beast. I took my intake and fuel rail cover off and took some pictures. This engine just looks like it was built for a turbo, like as if Honda knows something we don't (maybe they will come out with a turbo Si to go against the Mazdaspeed 3/WRX?). There is plenty of room for a turbo in back and plenty of room for plumbing. You could easily use an air-to-water intercooler and build a system putting out over 300hp with little lag. This engine has a lot of potential, just not what people are used to. I personally think cams are going to be the first real power maker. I've got access to a cam doctor and one of the best camshaft engineers in the world but no spare car or time to do anything about it :-(. I'd love to check out those profiles.
 
nikos - the original owner to the k20a forum may be looking into cams for the 9th gen. He took over IPS cams, and said it's something he's considering.
 
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